How can you fly a Citabria/ Decathlon from the back seat?
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Decathlon rear seat flying
I loved instructing in the 8KCAB , the 180hp tailwheel.
This machine sort of assumes that the front seat is occupied by a licenced
pilot, or, a student who can be "trusted" to operate the mags, mixture, and or follow instructions in the event of an emergency, like read out the numbers.
It is very difficult viewing the instruments from the rear, you tell the student to lean to the right so you can see the airspeed or read out the altimeter..
If you are operating in a controlled airspace, its real easy to blow altitude limitations.
As far as flying goes, you don't need an airspeed indicator when you have a pair of ears, and can feel the slipstream on the machine.. You can just about shut your eyes, put in earplugs, and put one finger on the stick to guess the airspeed...
You al pdon't need a G-meter, your gut will tell you most of the time what G you pulled etc.
If you don't have those kinds of perceptions about the airplane than you should not be instructing in it..
Rear seat flying is easy when you have good basic tailwheel training.
There is a problem in the 8KCAB as in the front seat, you can easily see over the nose, which is just perfect for all those pa-28 students who just stare at the end of the runway and wait till the wheels make a squeeky noise.
Rear Seat Training , for the first time will teach you how to use peripheral vision, how to sideslip and do circular approaches not to mention, wheel take offs and the harder wheel landings.
All that training will give you abilities you did not have previously, make you a safer pilot not to mention a more confident pilot.
Good operators have a graduated training program and you should be feeling very confident when they let you loose by yourself in cross winds etc.
Its the same for the pitts, its a fun machine to fly, easy to fly when you know how but if you don't get the right training, you are almost guaranteed to end up with a wreak and a fatal streak in your aviation career.
If you fly with someone who likes making the g meter read 5 gs, or has a n obvious personality disorder, then go get someone else.
There are a lot of aerobatic pilots who end up dead from accidents. Don't be one of them. Just take a list of books on aerobatics and check to see how the authors died.
Ramjet
This machine sort of assumes that the front seat is occupied by a licenced
pilot, or, a student who can be "trusted" to operate the mags, mixture, and or follow instructions in the event of an emergency, like read out the numbers.
It is very difficult viewing the instruments from the rear, you tell the student to lean to the right so you can see the airspeed or read out the altimeter..
If you are operating in a controlled airspace, its real easy to blow altitude limitations.
As far as flying goes, you don't need an airspeed indicator when you have a pair of ears, and can feel the slipstream on the machine.. You can just about shut your eyes, put in earplugs, and put one finger on the stick to guess the airspeed...
You al pdon't need a G-meter, your gut will tell you most of the time what G you pulled etc.
If you don't have those kinds of perceptions about the airplane than you should not be instructing in it..
Rear seat flying is easy when you have good basic tailwheel training.
There is a problem in the 8KCAB as in the front seat, you can easily see over the nose, which is just perfect for all those pa-28 students who just stare at the end of the runway and wait till the wheels make a squeeky noise.
Rear Seat Training , for the first time will teach you how to use peripheral vision, how to sideslip and do circular approaches not to mention, wheel take offs and the harder wheel landings.
All that training will give you abilities you did not have previously, make you a safer pilot not to mention a more confident pilot.
Good operators have a graduated training program and you should be feeling very confident when they let you loose by yourself in cross winds etc.
Its the same for the pitts, its a fun machine to fly, easy to fly when you know how but if you don't get the right training, you are almost guaranteed to end up with a wreak and a fatal streak in your aviation career.
If you fly with someone who likes making the g meter read 5 gs, or has a n obvious personality disorder, then go get someone else.
There are a lot of aerobatic pilots who end up dead from accidents. Don't be one of them. Just take a list of books on aerobatics and check to see how the authors died.
Ramjet
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What do you mean by prop control? The Decathlon has a fixed pitch prop. Do you mean the throttle?
By the way, I agree with everything that Ramjet555 says.
And even with around hundred back seat hours instructing in the Super D, I most of all have a huge respect for the lack of forward visibility during approach and landing. Especially at slow speeds where the wing profile of the Decathlon gives you a very high pitch attitude compared to other light aircrafts.
I know of at least one accident where this was the contributing factor.
Last edited by Crankshaft; 25th Jul 2013 at 20:26.
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The particular Decathlon (150hp) in question (at Tatenhill) used to be a Decathlon CS with constant speed prop and was great to fly.....then they put a fixed pitch prop on it.
7700
7700
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You'll have a blast. The Decathlon is an excellent aircraft for initial aerobatics training...though admittedly I would prefer a cs prop. As far as not being up front and close to the instruments...my first ever flight in a J-3 Cub was in the back and I was with a non tailwheel pilot up front and it was just a non problem. I now prefer flying the Cub from the back (it's the only way you are allowed to fly it solo) . With tailwheel a/c it is easier to sense yaw on t/o and landings than from the front.
I regularly fly a Great Lakes biplane which has about the same performance as a Super Decathlon and it is a delight to fly acro in.
I regularly fly a Great Lakes biplane which has about the same performance as a Super Decathlon and it is a delight to fly acro in.
Ramjet 555 is on the money.
Only difference is wheeler landings were prohibited from memory in the flight manual of the Decaths I flew unless it was added as a company limitation.
1. Easy enough with experience in Decaths and as instructor.
2. No
I'd also advise against flying from the back seat unless you are instructing and approved for rear seat instruction on the type (required where I worked).
Looks very different from back there on takeoff and landing, taxiing etc let alone the front seat has most controls and instruments in view.
Legal mine field these days if something goes wrong and you weren't sitting where you should.
Only difference is wheeler landings were prohibited from memory in the flight manual of the Decaths I flew unless it was added as a company limitation.
1. Easy enough with experience in Decaths and as instructor.
2. No
I'd also advise against flying from the back seat unless you are instructing and approved for rear seat instruction on the type (required where I worked).
Looks very different from back there on takeoff and landing, taxiing etc let alone the front seat has most controls and instruments in view.
Legal mine field these days if something goes wrong and you weren't sitting where you should.
Last edited by kookaburra; 8th Aug 2013 at 00:51.
Pilot Operating Manual which came with the 1978-80 model Decathlons commonly found in the Melbourne area states:
The handling notes provided by the local flying schools contradicted this effectively prohibiting wheelers (can't lay my hands on a copy quickly to quote it).
Either wheel landings or full stall (3 point) are permissible. ...... In high gusty wind or when a crosswind exists, a wheel landing is recommended .....
How can you fly a Citabria/ Decathlon from the back seat?
I'm pretty sure you can't fly the Decathelon solo from the back as you would be outside the rear CofG limit. It's designed to be flown solo from the front.
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learn them on the Pitts and you get thrown flying anything less capable, learn on say a Chippie, Decathlon, Bulldog or similar and you can aero most aircraft!
