Can you descend below minimum on a Mayday legally?
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Can you descend below minimum on a Mayday legally?
Can you descend below minimum on a Mayday legally?
now I know you and I would go below if we had to, but is there a code or article you can refer me to that says this....
Many thanks
Peter
now I know you and I would go below if we had to, but is there a code or article you can refer me to that says this....
Many thanks
Peter
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Not sure on legislation but I'm fairly sure that a commander may do pretty much anything he feels is nessecary in the interests of safety, obviously there must be a damn good reason that you would have to justify in a court if you made it.
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Can you descend below minimum on a Mayday legally?
One of the items thrown at us regularly is uncontrollable fire after departure with relanding at an airfield below minima. That's really fun when it is below Cat III ILS minima!
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Thanks
I know we would go below but someone recently said there was a document probably CAA or ICAO stating this and I've been asked to see if I can get this for Chief Pilot.
Would you be able to post the link here?
Would you be able to post the link here?
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Let's see if I've got this right...
you've declared a mayday
you want to fly below the 'minimum' altitude on the chart
Is that right?
um, you've declared a mayday? right?
I just don't understand the question.
Mayday means it is an emergency, and usually it's a bad one, or you would have issued a PanPan instead.
you've declared a mayday
you want to fly below the 'minimum' altitude on the chart
Is that right?
um, you've declared a mayday? right?
I just don't understand the question.
Mayday means it is an emergency, and usually it's a bad one, or you would have issued a PanPan instead.
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Minimums
You are absolutely right and we would go below minimums but I'd like to know if there is a document that actually says this?
In LPCs even with Mayday SE etc. we practice going around at minimum and do not practice landing below minimums.....
Say the cloud vase was 100ft and Cat1 was 200ft then we would probably go below the DA in this case and land.
Is there a document that says this though?
In LPCs even with Mayday SE etc. we practice going around at minimum and do not practice landing below minimums.....
Say the cloud vase was 100ft and Cat1 was 200ft then we would probably go below the DA in this case and land.
Is there a document that says this though?
Last edited by PeterJSY; 3rd Jun 2013 at 14:31.
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You may find that the ANO is your friend here...
Part 22, Rules of the Air, Article 160:
"(3) It is lawful for the Rules of the Air to be departed from to the extent necessary:
(a) for avoiding immediate danger"
"(5) If any departure from the Rules of the Air is made for the purpose of avoiding immediate danger, the commander of the aircraft must cause written detailed information about the departure, and of the circumstances giving rise to it, to be given within 10 days of the departure to the competent authority of the country in whose territory the departure was made or if the departure was made over the high seas, to the CAA."
So basically, you can do what you see fit in an emergency...as long as you can justify it afterwards.
Obviously, this isn't specific to IAP minima, but the general statement probably covers your scenario adequately (and with the above, you wouldn't need another rule specifically allowing for your situation, as it is already covered in that blanket statement).
Part 22, Rules of the Air, Article 160:
"(3) It is lawful for the Rules of the Air to be departed from to the extent necessary:
(a) for avoiding immediate danger"
"(5) If any departure from the Rules of the Air is made for the purpose of avoiding immediate danger, the commander of the aircraft must cause written detailed information about the departure, and of the circumstances giving rise to it, to be given within 10 days of the departure to the competent authority of the country in whose territory the departure was made or if the departure was made over the high seas, to the CAA."
So basically, you can do what you see fit in an emergency...as long as you can justify it afterwards.
Obviously, this isn't specific to IAP minima, but the general statement probably covers your scenario adequately (and with the above, you wouldn't need another rule specifically allowing for your situation, as it is already covered in that blanket statement).
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OH, you're talking about a practice mayday exercise, not an actual mayday.
In a practice mayday, no, you can't go below minimums, you're not in an actual mayday.
In an actual mayday, if you can, you want to observe the minimums, but if you can't then, by the fact that you've declared an emergency, you can do whatever you need to do to get the plane on the ground safely.
In a practice mayday, no, you can't go below minimums, you're not in an actual mayday.
In an actual mayday, if you can, you want to observe the minimums, but if you can't then, by the fact that you've declared an emergency, you can do whatever you need to do to get the plane on the ground safely.
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In LPCs even with Mayday SE etc. we practice going around at minimum and do not practice landing below minimums.....
grammar nazi
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Anything goes!
You can fly invertted to cat 1 become visual, snaprol and land, Anything to save the day, as LAI points out , just be around thhe next 10 days to file a report.
Ie, Do no breake the ac , with regards to Ils minima , and emg, in trim and established, the ac land itself.
Regards b
Ie, Do no breake the ac , with regards to Ils minima , and emg, in trim and established, the ac land itself.
Regards b
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I clearly remember (no mention of the country or the airport) the aircraft landing reporting "I had the lights at 180 feet" (DH was 256)
Roger that....XX XXX, did you copy the ceiling?
Affirmative
OK, cleared to land.
As a non-forecast fog blanketed all airports within 3 hours flying time, it was a "general emergency" which saw everyone, including the tower conspire to get the aircraft on the ground. They would all (there were not many actually, as it was late at night) be "landing" eventually anyway somewhere, so why not under the most controlled situation available, on the ILS at the airport. Experienced and practical response on all parts..-
Roger that....XX XXX, did you copy the ceiling?
Affirmative
OK, cleared to land.
As a non-forecast fog blanketed all airports within 3 hours flying time, it was a "general emergency" which saw everyone, including the tower conspire to get the aircraft on the ground. They would all (there were not many actually, as it was late at night) be "landing" eventually anyway somewhere, so why not under the most controlled situation available, on the ILS at the airport. Experienced and practical response on all parts..-
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You usually have something along the lines of
The pilot-in-command shall, in an emergency situation that requires immediate decision and action, take any action he/she considers necessary under the circumstances in accordance with 7.d. of Annex IV to Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. In such cases he/she may deviate from rules, operational procedures and methods in the interest of safety.
in your ops manual which is straight out of OPS1. The declaration of the mayday, however, wouldn't automatically mean you can bust minima on an approach. You'd still need a reason to do it because it still needs to be in the interests of safety. I would bust minima if I lost both in a twin though..
The pilot-in-command shall, in an emergency situation that requires immediate decision and action, take any action he/she considers necessary under the circumstances in accordance with 7.d. of Annex IV to Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. In such cases he/she may deviate from rules, operational procedures and methods in the interest of safety.
in your ops manual which is straight out of OPS1. The declaration of the mayday, however, wouldn't automatically mean you can bust minima on an approach. You'd still need a reason to do it because it still needs to be in the interests of safety. I would bust minima if I lost both in a twin though..
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while a mayday call has the system abandoning all impediments to safety the mayday call has no effect on the softness of granite.
while the perennial battle between the earth and aircraft has not ever been lost by the earth you are certainly welcome to try shouting mayday.
it has never worked before but maybe if you say it differently....
while the perennial battle between the earth and aircraft has not ever been lost by the earth you are certainly welcome to try shouting mayday.
it has never worked before but maybe if you say it differently....