Want to become part-time instructor, advice please, calling mad_jock and others...!
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Want to become part-time instructor, advice please, calling mad_jock and others...!
Hi guys,
I fly for a living and have been wanting to do my FI rating for quite some years, i've been given some good info on schools and would like to start this coming Spring/Summer, but i'm interested to hear how business is generally and the realistic opportunity of gaining part-time work...been a while since I was near a flying school...!
Obviously not hour building, but genuine interest in going back to light aircraft and teaching...
I live in the South-East of England.
Thanks for your thoughts...
I fly for a living and have been wanting to do my FI rating for quite some years, i've been given some good info on schools and would like to start this coming Spring/Summer, but i'm interested to hear how business is generally and the realistic opportunity of gaining part-time work...been a while since I was near a flying school...!
Obviously not hour building, but genuine interest in going back to light aircraft and teaching...
I live in the South-East of England.
Thanks for your thoughts...
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It all depends on the school.
At a very busy school with a lot of instructors, the unfortunate situation is that a student will simply get booked with the next available instructor, which just doesn't work out well for anyone.
The ideal scenario is obviously to have the same instructor for the bulk of your training, as it builds better continuity, you see them develop and know their weaknesses, and can remember exactly how they did at the last lesson rather than trying to interoperate someone else's notes.
Based on this, you would need to have students who are happy to only book lessons on the days you are going to work, or face being split between two or in some cases three or more instructors, which often leads to a slower development particularly in the early lessons.
This can work very well at a smaller school, where you would only be allocated a student who was happy with the days you were going to be in, but at a large busy school it can often be impractical simply because of the way in which an ops desk will work, they ultimately just want to fill the slot with aircraft and instructor.
Without the ability to deliver consistent training to the same bunch of students, you will find all of your flying will be trial lessons. Nothing wrong with them, and they are the bread and butter for many FIs, but they do get frustrating when it's all you ever do, and some can actually be quite unpleasant.
At a very busy school with a lot of instructors, the unfortunate situation is that a student will simply get booked with the next available instructor, which just doesn't work out well for anyone.
The ideal scenario is obviously to have the same instructor for the bulk of your training, as it builds better continuity, you see them develop and know their weaknesses, and can remember exactly how they did at the last lesson rather than trying to interoperate someone else's notes.
Based on this, you would need to have students who are happy to only book lessons on the days you are going to work, or face being split between two or in some cases three or more instructors, which often leads to a slower development particularly in the early lessons.
This can work very well at a smaller school, where you would only be allocated a student who was happy with the days you were going to be in, but at a large busy school it can often be impractical simply because of the way in which an ops desk will work, they ultimately just want to fill the slot with aircraft and instructor.
Without the ability to deliver consistent training to the same bunch of students, you will find all of your flying will be trial lessons. Nothing wrong with them, and they are the bread and butter for many FIs, but they do get frustrating when it's all you ever do, and some can actually be quite unpleasant.
Last edited by RTN11; 31st Dec 2012 at 16:18.
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what a wonderful thought...but have you thought of WHAT IF?
what if you crash and lose your ticket and can't work at the big airline?
what if you solo someone and he crashes, kills himself and others, and THEY(whowever they are) SUE YOU?
what if you crash and lose your ticket and can't work at the big airline?
what if you solo someone and he crashes, kills himself and others, and THEY(whowever they are) SUE YOU?
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GOOD instructors welcome
If you become a GOOD instructor you would be made welcome at Perth or Cumbernauld.......(but your commute may be a bit of a concern!)
There are always spaces for GOOD instructors.
GOOD = :-
Professional
Courteous
Interested in the student
Interested in the school
There are still loads of instructors about but the thing that makes the big difference is the attitude.....
Allan
There are always spaces for GOOD instructors.
GOOD = :-
Professional
Courteous
Interested in the student
Interested in the school
There are still loads of instructors about but the thing that makes the big difference is the attitude.....
Allan
As you fly for a living, you will no doubt have an IR and probably fly multi-pilot aircraft. These are two of the attributes that will make you a viable FI because we are now firmly embarked on a course, courtesy of the plonkers at EASA, where the supply of instrument instructors will dry up rapidly and the average FI will not be able to afford the necessary experience to qualify to instruct commerciallly. For you the door is opening, for the rest it is being slammed in their face.
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The biggest problem you are going to find is getting the course done while flying full time.
They ususally do the ground school with a min of 2 or 4 people.
In general schools like working line pilots and so do the punters. So usually you should have no problems finding a couple of students that are willing to make it work with your roster. Try not to become the trial flight bitch until you get a few complete PLL's through and know the course. You being a big jet pilot will be used as a selling point. I always had a knack of selling learning to fly. If you make your lessons fun you will have no probs.
There in lies the next problem getting days you can fly on (presuming your not banging off the 900 hour limit) thats not going to screw with your min days off.
My rating has just lapsed its a complete pain in the arse keeping it current to be honest trying to get the seminar in.
And to be honest as well after working as a full time Instructor it really didn't sit well with me taking hours from the full time instructors. When I used the rating it tended to be in its supervisory role with the FI(R)'s and covering when they were kanckard or it sorted a timing issue out to get the lessons back on time.
Be warned though it is bloody hard work. A day instructing doing 4-5 lessons will wipe you out in a completly different way than you are used to at work.
Last time I did a full day when one of the full time instructors went sick the only thought after the day was
me how the hell did I do that for 6 days a week for 13 months.
Saying that that though the feeling you get when you send someone solo for the first time doesn't change. For me sending my first student solo was actually more inspiring/emotional that my own first solo.
If you have the cash spare and can make it work go for it. But don't expect to make any money doing it. If you set things up before you start right or you do it through the umbrella of a school your going to teach for you maybe able to get the vat back and expenses so you will hopefully break even.
They ususally do the ground school with a min of 2 or 4 people.
In general schools like working line pilots and so do the punters. So usually you should have no problems finding a couple of students that are willing to make it work with your roster. Try not to become the trial flight bitch until you get a few complete PLL's through and know the course. You being a big jet pilot will be used as a selling point. I always had a knack of selling learning to fly. If you make your lessons fun you will have no probs.
There in lies the next problem getting days you can fly on (presuming your not banging off the 900 hour limit) thats not going to screw with your min days off.
My rating has just lapsed its a complete pain in the arse keeping it current to be honest trying to get the seminar in.
And to be honest as well after working as a full time Instructor it really didn't sit well with me taking hours from the full time instructors. When I used the rating it tended to be in its supervisory role with the FI(R)'s and covering when they were kanckard or it sorted a timing issue out to get the lessons back on time.
Be warned though it is bloody hard work. A day instructing doing 4-5 lessons will wipe you out in a completly different way than you are used to at work.
Last time I did a full day when one of the full time instructors went sick the only thought after the day was
me how the hell did I do that for 6 days a week for 13 months. Saying that that though the feeling you get when you send someone solo for the first time doesn't change. For me sending my first student solo was actually more inspiring/emotional that my own first solo.
If you have the cash spare and can make it work go for it. But don't expect to make any money doing it. If you set things up before you start right or you do it through the umbrella of a school your going to teach for you maybe able to get the vat back and expenses so you will hopefully break even.
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JB007 - Check your Secondary Employment Conditions, if any.
During the mid-nineties nats introduced intrusive (and, I thought, draconian...) secondary employment restrictions. I had been a part-time FI since '88, and when the restrictions were introduced I was sent a letter by my nats GM informing me that my Secondary Employment as a part-time FI was not approved. (nats didn't seem to adopt quite the same policy with their moonlighting biz-jet pilots - GMA etc - and seemed quite prepared to tolerate CPL ATCOs rushing into work whilst removing their epaulettes. But there, that's the inconsistencies of nats for you...).
During the mid-nineties nats introduced intrusive (and, I thought, draconian...) secondary employment restrictions. I had been a part-time FI since '88, and when the restrictions were introduced I was sent a letter by my nats GM informing me that my Secondary Employment as a part-time FI was not approved. (nats didn't seem to adopt quite the same policy with their moonlighting biz-jet pilots - GMA etc - and seemed quite prepared to tolerate CPL ATCOs rushing into work whilst removing their epaulettes. But there, that's the inconsistencies of nats for you...).
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Thanks again guys, some really genuine thoughts/useful stuff! EASA hadn't occurred to me either, need a LASORS equivalent! And ditto with them been plonkers: it's playing havoc with my type-ratings now as I no longer fly a UK registered aircraft!
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I'm instructing part time in the South East (Redhill). The PPL business is very slow - noticeably fewer students are signing up. This is true for all of the schools at Redhill and AIUI other airfields in the South East, so be prepared for what might be a difficult search for work.
Your best bet is to develop a relationship with the school of your choice as soon as you can, perhaps by becoming a private hire customer. You are far more likely to be given instructional opportunities if you are known to the organisation.
As Whopity points out, the draconian EASA requirements for IFR time will create a shortage of Instrument trainers, so perhaps one of the commercially orientated schools would be a better bet than a small PPL school like the one I work for.
If you decide to do the FI rating, Dorothy Pooley at Shoreham has a good reputation.
Your best bet is to develop a relationship with the school of your choice as soon as you can, perhaps by becoming a private hire customer. You are far more likely to be given instructional opportunities if you are known to the organisation.
As Whopity points out, the draconian EASA requirements for IFR time will create a shortage of Instrument trainers, so perhaps one of the commercially orientated schools would be a better bet than a small PPL school like the one I work for.
If you decide to do the FI rating, Dorothy Pooley at Shoreham has a good reputation.
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JB its cap804 you need to download.
In the same boat with the type rating stuff. Funny how over night a none UK TRE can go from doing 10-20 LPC's a year with never a problem with the paperwork to requiring a briefing and needing to hand over a load of cash.
In the same boat with the type rating stuff. Funny how over night a none UK TRE can go from doing 10-20 LPC's a year with never a problem with the paperwork to requiring a briefing and needing to hand over a load of cash.
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I am already seeing the effects of the IFR changes with an increase in the free lance bookings that I am getting for teaching IR and especially ME/IR course. Could be a good year for me! Main problem is fitting it around work flying!!
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Be careful about instructing whilst flying full-time.
None of the airlines I have flown with have encouraged 'moonlightling' as a flying instructor - and some specifically would not allow 'secondary employment' in their terms and conditions. The advice I was given was never to ask a direct question of my employer about flying instructing as the simple answer would be 'no'. By not asking, the answer was never given!
In my case I didn't consider it an issue as I just worked ad hoc at the local flying club, mainly trial lessons for the reasons mentioned above. I was quite happy as it kept my hand in, helped to keep my ratings current and provided free flying (and relaxing away from the pressures of commercial flying). Above all I was pleased to fly trial lessons and provide encouragement for aspiring pilots as well as providing a 'good day out' for those only doing for fun or as part of a 'Red Letter' day (as was).
Most of my 'serious' flying instructing was done before I joined the airlines - and I have to agree with the comments above. It will be tiring flying commercially AND working full-time on your days off.
Whilst I was flying in the low cost market my flying instructing died a death as I just didn't have time to balance flying, family etc. During those years it was just the obligatory 3-yearly flight test and seminar.
By all means arrange to complete the FI course, because if you do wish to teach for the more advanced ratings, then your IFR/multi-crew time will be invaluable - however, most schools require a certain level of experience and you need to meet the minimum requirements under EASA. So whilst you have the necessary IFR/multi-crew experience you won't have the instructing experience. As Whopity points out, most people have the instructing time but not the other!
Best of luck in any event - I have always enjoyed instructing and felt I made a difference. But be careful about integrating your 'hobby' into your existing commercial schedule.
Kind regards
FOK
None of the airlines I have flown with have encouraged 'moonlightling' as a flying instructor - and some specifically would not allow 'secondary employment' in their terms and conditions. The advice I was given was never to ask a direct question of my employer about flying instructing as the simple answer would be 'no'. By not asking, the answer was never given!
In my case I didn't consider it an issue as I just worked ad hoc at the local flying club, mainly trial lessons for the reasons mentioned above. I was quite happy as it kept my hand in, helped to keep my ratings current and provided free flying (and relaxing away from the pressures of commercial flying). Above all I was pleased to fly trial lessons and provide encouragement for aspiring pilots as well as providing a 'good day out' for those only doing for fun or as part of a 'Red Letter' day (as was).
Most of my 'serious' flying instructing was done before I joined the airlines - and I have to agree with the comments above. It will be tiring flying commercially AND working full-time on your days off.
Whilst I was flying in the low cost market my flying instructing died a death as I just didn't have time to balance flying, family etc. During those years it was just the obligatory 3-yearly flight test and seminar.
By all means arrange to complete the FI course, because if you do wish to teach for the more advanced ratings, then your IFR/multi-crew time will be invaluable - however, most schools require a certain level of experience and you need to meet the minimum requirements under EASA. So whilst you have the necessary IFR/multi-crew experience you won't have the instructing experience. As Whopity points out, most people have the instructing time but not the other!
Best of luck in any event - I have always enjoyed instructing and felt I made a difference. But be careful about integrating your 'hobby' into your existing commercial schedule.
Kind regards
FOK
Last edited by FlyingOfficerKite; 2nd Jan 2013 at 11:43.
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Saying that that though the feeling you get when you send someone solo for
the first time doesn't change. For me sending my first student solo was actually
more inspiring/emotional that my own first solo.
There are still loads of instructors about but the thing that makes the big
difference is the attitude.....
Allan
Last edited by Pull what; 11th Jan 2013 at 15:25.
