Logging Flight Time - EASA vs FAA

[Level Attitude]

(iii) the holder of an instructor certificate may log as PIC all flight time during which he or she acts as an instructor in an aircraft;

It says for ALL flight time during when he or she acts as an instructor.

If they are alone in the aircraft it is not an Instructional Flight. If they are accompanied in the aircraft it is still not an Instructional Flight unless the person accompanying them logs DUAL.

But what if the "student" needs to be the PIC for the flight because of not having full controls. Then this rule says ALL situations anyway. You have a situation if you strict follow the rules which ends up in both student and pilot logging PIC.

If the "student" does not log DUAL then they were not a student (under EASA).

The PIC of an aircraft does not need full controls, does not even need to be at the controls at all (think of the Captain (PIC) having a snooze in the back of a large jet whilst his First and Second Officers fly the plane).

Part-FCL Definitions: Pilot-in-command’ (PIC) means the pilot designated as being in command and charged with the safe conduct of the flight.

In GA the usual way for a PIC/Instructor to ensure they can make the plane do what they want is to sit at a full set of controls, 'Taking Control' if they wish/deem appropriate.

Bose-x has stated that, in certain, legally allowed, situations, where he trusts the student he will fly without a full set of controls in front of him - relying on the student to obey any commands he is given.

But, as he states, either he is PIC and the Student logs DUAL; or the "student" logs PIC and Bose is just a Passenger who can offer advice.

[Krallu]

That is the requirements for revalidation yes. But they do not say anything about who is PIC on the training flight.

If you are current and rated on the aircraft you can be legally PIC and at the same time do a training flight.

[Krallu]

But, as he states, either he is PIC and the Student logs DUAL; or the "student" logs PIC and Bose is just a Passenger who can offer advice.

Strange because flight instructor instructors here tell new instructors that they can let the student on a training flight be PIC and still they should log only FI time instead.

[Krallu]

Sounds like I should make a call to the authority to set things straight.

[Level Attitude]

If you are current and rated on the aircraft you can be legally PIC and at the same time do a training flight.

NO! Under EASA you are either PIC or DUAL for Single Pilot Operations (you cannot be both at the same time).

If a pilot is legal to fly and happens to be accompanied by an Instructor then a decision needs to be made (before flight) who is to be PIC.

If the Instructor is PIC then the other pilot is either a Passenger who logs nothing, or a Student who logs DUAL.

If the pilot is PIC then the Instructor is just a Passenger, logs nothing, and has no legal authority to influence the flight.

[nick14]

Amc1 FCL.050

b) (1) (ii)

The applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as PIC time all solo flight time, flight time as SPIC and flight time under supervision provided that such SPIC time and flight time under supervision is countersigned by the instructor.

[S-Works]

Nick14, that refers only to the solo consolidation time that is logged under an integrated course. No other time is permitted and as its states the supervising FI must sign it off. It is not used when an Instructor is onboard, that times is dual.

Krallu, You are way of the mark with this one and it shows a very worrying lack of understanding of the responsibilities of an FI(A) under EASA. If the purpose of a flight is for Instruction then it is dual. Nothing else. I can think of a few aircraft that I have flown as commander where I did not have a full set of controls including one that only had a throw over yoke!

There is no circumstance for a dual flight under EASA where two people will be logging command time.

If you are current and rated on the aircraft you can be legally PIC and at the same time do a training flight.

Not under EASA, if you are doing a training flight for the purposes of revalidating a rating then it is a dual flight. The regulation is quite clear that you must have logged one hour of dual time in order to revalidate by experience.

I do wonder why we keep having these discussions over and over again. It is simple stuff and should be taught on the FI(A) course.

[nick14]

The title of that section is merely Logging of flight time, and as an integrated course student you wouldn't hold a licence. SPIC is logged for the IF phase and there is always an instructor on board, the solo time is pure PIC.

I agree with your other points: instructional flight is just that, only dual is logged by student, PIC for the FI/CRI/TRI. If not then one must be designated as PIC.