Cessna 172 IFR training screens
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Cessna 172 IFR training screens
Has anybody got any screens they no longer use that woud fit a C172 or would be willing to let me use them as a template to make my own?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Sevenstroke..,
In the UK, slatted screens (much like vertical window blinds, but fixed and not flexible) are used to simulate IMC. They're placed over the side windows & windscreen to prevent the student from seeing outside. The slats are oriented to prevent the student from seeing out while letting the instructor see through the slots. The ones I've seen have to be fitted before flight.
For take-off & landing there's a small window in the screen that can be removed or opened, giving a somewhat similar view to looking through a windscreen that's deiced with a hotplate.
In the UK, slatted screens (much like vertical window blinds, but fixed and not flexible) are used to simulate IMC. They're placed over the side windows & windscreen to prevent the student from seeing outside. The slats are oriented to prevent the student from seeing out while letting the instructor see through the slots. The ones I've seen have to be fitted before flight.
For take-off & landing there's a small window in the screen that can be removed or opened, giving a somewhat similar view to looking through a windscreen that's deiced with a hotplate.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 1st Jun 2012 at 02:42.
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We all use the hoods and they work fine, cost bugger all and not to mention can be removed with a flick of the wrist which I would consider safer.
Last edited by Ralis; 1st Jun 2012 at 07:37.
We all use the hoods and they work fine,
I wonder that two stage screens aren't used. They used to be mentioned in the Oz rules as one way meet the view limiting requirements. A transparent yellow coating or screen on the windows + transparent blue glasses for the student. The combination is difficult to see through but is relatively transparent individually. The instructor can see outside & inside, but the student can only see inside.
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I wonder that two stage screens aren't used.
Last edited by A37575; 4th Jun 2012 at 12:25.
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I seldom post on these forums anymore, but every once and a while there is a subject so important I just feel I should comment.
For decades I have asked the same question here in Canada.
" Why is two stage amber no longer used in instrument flight training? "
Never ever received any useful answer except maybe I am from the cave man era of flying and the industry has improved immensely since the days two stage amber was used.
One of the brighter lights in flight training did say Transport Canada won't allow it because the amber film in the windshield and side windows interferes with the instructor seeing outside.
Why do snow skiers use amber lenses for better visibility?
For decades I have asked the same question here in Canada.
" Why is two stage amber no longer used in instrument flight training? "
Never ever received any useful answer except maybe I am from the cave man era of flying and the industry has improved immensely since the days two stage amber was used.
One of the brighter lights in flight training did say Transport Canada won't allow it because the amber film in the windshield and side windows interferes with the instructor seeing outside.
Why do snow skiers use amber lenses for better visibility?
Two stage screens polarize light and with the possibility of reducing the visibility of the instructor/safety pilot so their use was prohibited in the UK.
Last edited by Whopity; 5th Jun 2012 at 07:15.
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Two stage screens polarize light and with the possibility of reducing the visibility of the instructor/safety pilot so their use was prohibited in the UK.
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Interesting.
Several things come to mind when remembering how amber lenses or amber film changed what I was looking at.
With amber Ray Ban sunglasses objects became clearer in reduced visibility such as cloudy dull days and misty days....I found the same to be true when using two stage amber when riding as instructor pilot for IFR training.
Several things come to mind when remembering how amber lenses or amber film changed what I was looking at.
With amber Ray Ban sunglasses objects became clearer in reduced visibility such as cloudy dull days and misty days....I found the same to be true when using two stage amber when riding as instructor pilot for IFR training.
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Instruments required for IMC flight non commercial
Hi,
Can anyone tell me, if additional aircraft instrument requirements such as an auto pilot, chart reader and a push to talk button as per CARS is mandatory for IFR training flight in IMC for non commercial purposes ? Can the same be used for a guy who is IFR group 1 rated fly a rental C-172 into IMC without the autopilot or chart reader ? I know pTT is a must apart from all the other basic instrument requirements mentioned in CARS part 6.
An answer would be great !!! thanks
Can anyone tell me, if additional aircraft instrument requirements such as an auto pilot, chart reader and a push to talk button as per CARS is mandatory for IFR training flight in IMC for non commercial purposes ? Can the same be used for a guy who is IFR group 1 rated fly a rental C-172 into IMC without the autopilot or chart reader ? I know pTT is a must apart from all the other basic instrument requirements mentioned in CARS part 6.
An answer would be great !!! thanks
I am not sure what is meant by polarising light though.
Colour filters are essentially cross polarising the light to create no vision. The safety pilot is looking through a polarising filter.
It is recommended that pilots do not wear Polarising sunglasses
(From the FAA regarding polarized glasses)
Polarized lenses are not recommended for use in the aviation environment. While useful for blocking reflected light from horizontal surfaces such as water or snow, polarization can reduce or eliminate the visibility of instruments that incorporate anti-glare filters. Polarized lenses may also interfere with visibility through an aircraft windscreen by enhancing striations in laminated materials and mask the sparkle of light that reflects off shiny surfaces such as another aircraft’s wing or windscreen, which can reduce the time a pilot has to react in a “see-and-avoid” traffic situation. (Airliners.net, 2009)
Polarized lenses are not recommended for use in the aviation environment. While useful for blocking reflected light from horizontal surfaces such as water or snow, polarization can reduce or eliminate the visibility of instruments that incorporate anti-glare filters. Polarized lenses may also interfere with visibility through an aircraft windscreen by enhancing striations in laminated materials and mask the sparkle of light that reflects off shiny surfaces such as another aircraft’s wing or windscreen, which can reduce the time a pilot has to react in a “see-and-avoid” traffic situation. (Airliners.net, 2009)
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I typed the wrong words whopity.
I am not sure what is meant by polarizing light though.
I understand the meaning of polarizing, the problem I have is I do not remember any " polarizing " effects from the amber film we used in the Cessna 140's we did the instrument training in.
Then that is no surprise as it was over fifty years ago.
I guess it must have been a risk using that method or the " authorities " would never have banned it.
Remember how much safer you are in today's world of aviation when walking on an airport as long as you have the " hi-vis " safety vest " on thanks to the vigilance of the " authorities ".
I was on of the lucky ones to have survived so many years having never worn one.
I am not sure what is meant by polarizing light though.
Then that is no surprise as it was over fifty years ago.
I guess it must have been a risk using that method or the " authorities " would never have banned it.
Remember how much safer you are in today's world of aviation when walking on an airport as long as you have the " hi-vis " safety vest " on thanks to the vigilance of the " authorities ".
I was on of the lucky ones to have survived so many years having never worn one.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 6th Jun 2012 at 00:02.
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tinstaffl
thanks for explaining the screen stuff to me. and to BOSE...my certificates are expressed so that those answering the question will know my level in aviation.
Quite frankly those screens sound awful in terms of safety. The instructor must have a clear view to avoid other traffic. A small ''hood'' worn on the head of a pilot is just fine. I didn't ''cheat'' and when I was instructing could easily tell if someone was ''cheating''. Why should someone cheat? You want to learn how to fly and not how to ''cheat''.
The inventors of ''blind flying'' Jimmy Doolittle, had a giant hood over the entire cockpit of his plane...his ''safety" pilot had his own cockpit completely uncovered.
I laughed at the idea of having a view the size of a hotplate melted area on the windshield. When we do ''instrument takeoffs" we line up on the runway, set the DG, and its hood down, off we go into the wild gray yonder. No looking out a hotplate sized area on the windscreen.
For the checkride, its hood down at 100'.
thanks for explaining the screen stuff to me. and to BOSE...my certificates are expressed so that those answering the question will know my level in aviation.
Quite frankly those screens sound awful in terms of safety. The instructor must have a clear view to avoid other traffic. A small ''hood'' worn on the head of a pilot is just fine. I didn't ''cheat'' and when I was instructing could easily tell if someone was ''cheating''. Why should someone cheat? You want to learn how to fly and not how to ''cheat''.
The inventors of ''blind flying'' Jimmy Doolittle, had a giant hood over the entire cockpit of his plane...his ''safety" pilot had his own cockpit completely uncovered.
I laughed at the idea of having a view the size of a hotplate melted area on the windshield. When we do ''instrument takeoffs" we line up on the runway, set the DG, and its hood down, off we go into the wild gray yonder. No looking out a hotplate sized area on the windscreen.
For the checkride, its hood down at 100'.
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Note:
The following are my own personal thoughts on flight training and I may be completely wrong in my thought process....so cut me some slack in your replies if any.
The wearing of a " hood " is unorthodox for the simple reason it changes ones total picture of your surroundings which is the inside of the aircraft you are flying.
If wearing a hood is the best method of flying by reference to only the instruments why is it not mandatory to wear a hood in IMC during all IFR flights?
Personally I refused to put one on during my check rides when I was renewing my IFR rating, only one inspector ever insisted I wear one , so I just cancelled the flight test and requested another inspector.
When I explained my reason for cancelling the test to the head of the instrument flight testing department there was no problem at all getting an inspector who could examine my ability to fly IFR without me being forced to wear a device that to me was unorthodox.
The following are my own personal thoughts on flight training and I may be completely wrong in my thought process....so cut me some slack in your replies if any.
The wearing of a " hood " is unorthodox for the simple reason it changes ones total picture of your surroundings which is the inside of the aircraft you are flying.
If wearing a hood is the best method of flying by reference to only the instruments why is it not mandatory to wear a hood in IMC during all IFR flights?
Personally I refused to put one on during my check rides when I was renewing my IFR rating, only one inspector ever insisted I wear one , so I just cancelled the flight test and requested another inspector.
When I explained my reason for cancelling the test to the head of the instrument flight testing department there was no problem at all getting an inspector who could examine my ability to fly IFR without me being forced to wear a device that to me was unorthodox.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 6th Jun 2012 at 02:27.