Only one or both hands on controls during take-off
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Of course airlie ops prcedures are "pish" if aplied to light aircraft but, hands off at V1 is perfectly proper in an aeroplane with multiple engines and a specified V1
And its good to see another pilot with similar levels of spelling as myself
And to the Kraut poster I think one of your instructors posts on here. We have crossed swords many times about the persudo pish ops that they are teaching. His fall back line is that its approved and your not expected to flying in light aircraft after the course.
In that case why do they give these students a license that allows them to fly this class of aircraft?
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Genghis, you can trim out a hell of a lot of that pull on a 172, I watched someone do that very thing and just simply not notice at all. I mean not even register that the additional trimming meant something wasn't right, or that we weren't climbing or the light buffeting sensation on the elevator and rudder.
It's incredible how oblivious some people can be to important signs when they are not very current.
It's incredible how oblivious some people can be to important signs when they are not very current.
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Is there anyone who could defend keeping both hands on the controls?
Below about 1000 feet, I doubt it. In the cruise at a sensible height, why not?
Is there anyone who could defend keeping both hands on the controls?
Below about 1000 feet, I doubt it. In the cruise at a sensible height, why not?
Well, I could go with, why not? But in truth I would ask, "in the cruise at a sensible height, why?" I see no point in flying 2 hands on even at this point - it achieves nothing and is an uncomfortable way to fly.
Any opinions about having one or both hands on controls during take-off
I recall an instructor telling me that he had a wooden propeller go out of balance, and his point was that their was so much vibration he could not find the throttle to close it.
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The only exception for having two hands on the control column on takeoff is after V1 if you're flying something capable of flying after engine failure at V1 (e.g. jet or turboprop).
The only exception for having two hands on the control column for landing is when flying heavier aircraft at or near forward C.G. limit.
The only exception for having two hands on the control column for landing is when flying heavier aircraft at or near forward C.G. limit.
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One hand on throttle?
The ONLY time both hands should be on the yoke during takeoff is when "V1" is called, and you're flying a multi-piloted airplane. (And this procedure was undoubtedly developed to prevent attempts at rejected takeoff after V1).
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I agree totally with having a hand on the stick/yoke and the other on the throttle during take-off, but up to 1000ft seems slightly excessive to me. Maybe to 500-600ft but after that any change in RPM/speed with no throttle setting movement should (I stress should) be noted during the LAI scan.
I have in the past reduced the power setting slightly to see if students pick it up. It amazed me how either a)as pointed out you come closer and closer to the stall or b)you pretty much stopped climbing altogether! It's an exercise which students learn well from in my humble opinion. As is opening the throttle on an practice engine failure when it hasn't been checked! They soon learn after that if done at a critical point!
I have in the past reduced the power setting slightly to see if students pick it up. It amazed me how either a)as pointed out you come closer and closer to the stall or b)you pretty much stopped climbing altogether! It's an exercise which students learn well from in my humble opinion. As is opening the throttle on an practice engine failure when it hasn't been checked! They soon learn after that if done at a critical point!
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Those were students, I've seen plenty of licensed pilots do the same which is why I teach hand on the throttle below 1000ft, it's only really for 2 minutes max and there's nothing else for your hand to be doing so it might as well be making sure the throttle is fully forward. It really does creep back in the 152/172/182 not so much in the pipers but it's good technique.
In my cub there's also a tendency to hit the rear throttle with your elbow when you trim and there have been a few anecdotes of "presumed" engine failures due to the throttle being nudged back with the elbow - little pathetic but it's a definite possibility.
In my cub there's also a tendency to hit the rear throttle with your elbow when you trim and there have been a few anecdotes of "presumed" engine failures due to the throttle being nudged back with the elbow - little pathetic but it's a definite possibility.
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MY CFI would have beaten me within an inch of my life if I had taken my hand off the throttle on TO
I would always insist that my students have a hand on the throttle during takeoff and landing. You simply must be ready to adjust power at a moment's notice. The only exception was when landing a seneca- and only in the very last stage of the flare.
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Let us not forget there are exceptions to most things.
I'm waiting to hear from those who are current at spending all of their flying hours on the deck. In my day; right hand on stick and once the left hand finished with the throttle quadrant it went to the spray lever and stayed there.
Don't take things too literally kiddies.
I'm waiting to hear from those who are current at spending all of their flying hours on the deck. In my day; right hand on stick and once the left hand finished with the throttle quadrant it went to the spray lever and stayed there.
Don't take things too literally kiddies.
True, osmosis. When tugging it is off the deck, then hand on the tow release until I am at around 300 metres. Then if the glider pilot isn't doing anything worrying I can free up the spare hand.
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I am glad to announce that due to your feedback I was able to convince some of these students to fly with one hand on the control column and one hand on throttle. They had been introduced to this both hands on controls flying by a former airline pilot.
I was recently doing crosswind landings with one of them in fairly gusty weather and kept wondering how could they even pull off a successful crosswind landing or go around in such conditions by having both of your hands on controls.
I was recently doing crosswind landings with one of them in fairly gusty weather and kept wondering how could they even pull off a successful crosswind landing or go around in such conditions by having both of your hands on controls.
Last edited by Capt. Spock; 13th May 2012 at 17:54.
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Mad Jock
Please keep telling it like it is !!
I find all this trying to fly SEP like an airliner mostly stupid and sometimes stupidly dangerous.
It would not surprise me if all this rubbish comes from that big school in the south that Is like aviations answer to the church of scientology.
I find all this trying to fly SEP like an airliner mostly stupid and sometimes stupidly dangerous.
It would not surprise me if all this rubbish comes from that big school in the south that Is like aviations answer to the church of scientology.
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I've got an idea...DO WHAT WORKS WELL FOR YOU
I came up the hard way...teaching, little airlines and now a big, big airline.
AT the big airline, I've seen guys use both hands to land the thing and ask help from the other pilot with the throttles...this in extreme crosswind
I've landed with one hand on the yoke and one on the throttle in extreme crosswind using assymetric thrust to aid in directional control (jet).
I've placed both hands on the yoke for the reinforcement of the GO decision at or near V1.
I've kept one hand on the throttle on takeoff and one on the yoke so as to be ready to go to firewall thrust/power in a windshear scenario.
and yes, some small planes have the throttles retard themselves on takeoff and climbout due to vibes...so use the throttle lock a bit more, or keep your hand on it.
so...fly safe and smart
AND WHAT DO THE FRICKIN AIRBUS PILOTS DO?
I came up the hard way...teaching, little airlines and now a big, big airline.
AT the big airline, I've seen guys use both hands to land the thing and ask help from the other pilot with the throttles...this in extreme crosswind
I've landed with one hand on the yoke and one on the throttle in extreme crosswind using assymetric thrust to aid in directional control (jet).
I've placed both hands on the yoke for the reinforcement of the GO decision at or near V1.
I've kept one hand on the throttle on takeoff and one on the yoke so as to be ready to go to firewall thrust/power in a windshear scenario.
and yes, some small planes have the throttles retard themselves on takeoff and climbout due to vibes...so use the throttle lock a bit more, or keep your hand on it.
so...fly safe and smart
AND WHAT DO THE FRICKIN AIRBUS PILOTS DO?
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Originally Posted by sevenstrokeroll
I've got an idea...DO WHAT WORKS WELL FOR YOU..
so...fly safe and smart
so...fly safe and smart
Originally Posted by sevenstrokeroll
AND WHAT DO THE FRICKIN AIRBUS PILOTS DO?
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What you have described is all airline ops.
We are not teaching people to fly an airliner we are teaching the to fly a SEP light aircraft.
Unless there is a control that needs to be held like the cable release I really can't see any reason NOT to have your hand on the power.
There are lots of things that work well for students but are dirty filthy habits to get into.
We are not teaching people to fly an airliner we are teaching the to fly a SEP light aircraft.
Unless there is a control that needs to be held like the cable release I really can't see any reason NOT to have your hand on the power.
There are lots of things that work well for students but are dirty filthy habits to get into.
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Any opinions about having one or both hands on controls during take-off on a typical training aircraft equipped with control column (C172). Take-off being in this case the phase from lift off until reaching 1000 feet.
Its nothing to do with airline flying as such-its operating the type of aircraft that you are training in at the time, and in the case of larger aircraft normally in accordance to a operation manual approved procedure which normally started life as the manufacturers procedure!