Instructing For the IMC/IR(R)
And what would then happen when an IRI(R) adds an IR or EIR to his licence?
As regards the EIR - well, that'll depend upon the NPA 2011-16 Opinion finding its way into European Law.
You should be aware of AIC 13/2012 which announces a change to the requirements to add the IF Instructional privilege to an FI rating.
There's no requirement under UK law to record flight time under IFR (let alone "flight time in circumstances that require compliance with IFR"). So how is that supposed to work?
Have you taken this up with the CAA or EASA?
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1) the requirement is 200 hours IFR, 50 of which can be "Instrument Ground Time" --> FNPT time. So if you have an IR, you start with 50-55. If the IR training isn't under IFR, nothing is.
2) If you have logged "sole reference" time only, be pragmatic. If someone asks you how much cross-country time you have, you go back over your logbook and see which flights were CC. Do the same.
--> Any flight with "sole reference" must be, at least partly, been IFR?
--> Any flights with remarks showing an IAP also, at least partly, IFR
--> Any flights you remember having flown airways?
etc.
The real problem, I suspect, is that most of those that have not logged 150 additional hours of IFR after gaining the rating actually have not FLOWN 150 hours IFR after gaining the rating. Previous CAA rules allowed any FI with a full IR to meet the requirements. Now, shock horror, the FI needs to have actual IFR experience...
2) If you have logged "sole reference" time only, be pragmatic. If someone asks you how much cross-country time you have, you go back over your logbook and see which flights were CC. Do the same.
--> Any flight with "sole reference" must be, at least partly, been IFR?
--> Any flights with remarks showing an IAP also, at least partly, IFR
--> Any flights you remember having flown airways?
etc.
The real problem, I suspect, is that most of those that have not logged 150 additional hours of IFR after gaining the rating actually have not FLOWN 150 hours IFR after gaining the rating. Previous CAA rules allowed any FI with a full IR to meet the requirements. Now, shock horror, the FI needs to have actual IFR experience...
Last edited by Cobalt; 7th May 2012 at 18:15.
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A cynic might suggest that for any minimum hours requirement.
No real difference to someone logging IFR time "creatively" with a goal of 200 hours in mind.
I would hope that anyone claiming substantial "made up" IFR experience would easily be discovered in an interview, with questions on Eurocontrol flight planning, the realities of flying IFR in light aircraft, and by simple plausibility checks on the aircraft flown in. (IFR in the C152 from Biggin to Shoreham and back, with no time in IMC? Pull the other one)
No real difference to someone logging IFR time "creatively" with a goal of 200 hours in mind.
I would hope that anyone claiming substantial "made up" IFR experience would easily be discovered in an interview, with questions on Eurocontrol flight planning, the realities of flying IFR in light aircraft, and by simple plausibility checks on the aircraft flown in. (IFR in the C152 from Biggin to Shoreham and back, with no time in IMC? Pull the other one)
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As someone who was looking in the future at the possibility of doing the stand alone IRI to add to my CRI....interesting thread!
With the removal of the 4:1 for flying with sole ref to Instruments that makes it impossible
Is the ANO still our bible for air law in the UK and will it be updated to reflect EASA rules?
Remember Cobalt you don't have to be IMC to be IFR !!! IFR is defined in the ANO and basically relates to altitudes followed during flight.
I guess at the end of the day "they" are wanting IRI's to have real IFR experience and not just Biggin to Shoreham in a C152 and creative parker pen hours, not a bad thing it just makes it a longer road to get there!
An interesting note; to be an IRI you need 800hrs IFR..to be an IRE you need 450hrs IFR, have I misunderstood that or what, should it not be the other way around?
With the removal of the 4:1 for flying with sole ref to Instruments that makes it impossible
Is the ANO still our bible for air law in the UK and will it be updated to reflect EASA rules?
Remember Cobalt you don't have to be IMC to be IFR !!! IFR is defined in the ANO and basically relates to altitudes followed during flight.
I guess at the end of the day "they" are wanting IRI's to have real IFR experience and not just Biggin to Shoreham in a C152 and creative parker pen hours, not a bad thing it just makes it a longer road to get there!
An interesting note; to be an IRI you need 800hrs IFR..to be an IRE you need 450hrs IFR, have I misunderstood that or what, should it not be the other way around?
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smithgd,
No, you got that right. But the IRE needs to hold an IRI rating, which makes this a mockery since the IRI needs the 800 hours IFR.
This is yet another EASA mistake. The hours requirement (200 - FI, 800 - IRI, 450 - IRE) is a copy from the JAR rules, which required any examiner to also have the ratings to instruct for what they examine. So under JAR-FCL (1.452, if you want to read it up), both an IRI and an FI with the "no applied instrument" restriction removed would have been sufficient. EASA explicitly requires an IRI. I don't think this is intentional.
On to your other point - technically, ANY flight in class G below 3000ft, clear of clouds, in sight of surface, and 800m visibility is according to IFR (and if you don't believe it, read rule 33 and 34 in the ANO, which are the IFR in class G). And of course also the departures, approaches and landings in accordance with normal aviation practice, for example, circuits.
I'd just LOVE to see anyone pitching up at the CAA and claiming substantiall ALL their flying as IFR as long as it was in Class G and below 3000ft, which includes all PPL training... EASA didn't think that one through, did they? As I wrote above, the reply will most likely be, pull the other one...
No, you got that right. But the IRE needs to hold an IRI rating, which makes this a mockery since the IRI needs the 800 hours IFR.
This is yet another EASA mistake. The hours requirement (200 - FI, 800 - IRI, 450 - IRE) is a copy from the JAR rules, which required any examiner to also have the ratings to instruct for what they examine. So under JAR-FCL (1.452, if you want to read it up), both an IRI and an FI with the "no applied instrument" restriction removed would have been sufficient. EASA explicitly requires an IRI. I don't think this is intentional.
On to your other point - technically, ANY flight in class G below 3000ft, clear of clouds, in sight of surface, and 800m visibility is according to IFR (and if you don't believe it, read rule 33 and 34 in the ANO, which are the IFR in class G). And of course also the departures, approaches and landings in accordance with normal aviation practice, for example, circuits.
I'd just LOVE to see anyone pitching up at the CAA and claiming substantiall ALL their flying as IFR as long as it was in Class G and below 3000ft, which includes all PPL training... EASA didn't think that one through, did they? As I wrote above, the reply will most likely be, pull the other one...
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But it does raise the question of what the CAA will require as evidence of the flight being under IFR, given that up till now my logbook doesn't list IFR hours? Only recently have I been putting "IFR to xxxxx" in the remarks column.
I'm thinking a new logbook may be required
I'm thinking a new logbook may be required
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Luckily, being proud of my newly CAA-given capabilities at the time, I added the IFR hours in the remarks column from the outset (I just added another column on the far right).
As far as evidence is concerned, it is your signature in your logbook.
The last three times (IR, CPL and FI ratings) I have given the CAA a printout of my electronic logbook (Excel) which I keep since (a) I am rubbish at adding hours and (b) I also needed to add my hours according to FAA rules, which are completely different. The CAA wanted it signed as correct on each printout page, but accepted it. I always offered them my handwritten paper logbooks as well, they didn't want them.
I have no idea if the CAA checks anything for truthfulness. They could check a lot, though. In my case, I could point to the capabilities of the aircaft flown (all my IFR flights after the rating, other than revalidations, were in turbocharged aircraft, and 60-70% in de-iced tourers), the routes (mostly international, which is much easier to fly IFR than VFR), if they want they can try to dig out the Eurocontrol flight plans for most of them, and even weather reports for IMC hours... but I think that significant "Parker hours" are more likely to be discovered in an interview, or by the FIC instructor giving you the IRI training.
As far as evidence is concerned, it is your signature in your logbook.
The last three times (IR, CPL and FI ratings) I have given the CAA a printout of my electronic logbook (Excel) which I keep since (a) I am rubbish at adding hours and (b) I also needed to add my hours according to FAA rules, which are completely different. The CAA wanted it signed as correct on each printout page, but accepted it. I always offered them my handwritten paper logbooks as well, they didn't want them.
I have no idea if the CAA checks anything for truthfulness. They could check a lot, though. In my case, I could point to the capabilities of the aircaft flown (all my IFR flights after the rating, other than revalidations, were in turbocharged aircraft, and 60-70% in de-iced tourers), the routes (mostly international, which is much easier to fly IFR than VFR), if they want they can try to dig out the Eurocontrol flight plans for most of them, and even weather reports for IMC hours... but I think that significant "Parker hours" are more likely to be discovered in an interview, or by the FIC instructor giving you the IRI training.
