IR test - Checklist practice?
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Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Winchester
IR test - Checklist practice?
I'm hopefully doing my JAR multi-IR test soon, coming from a FAA single engine IR with a certain amount of IFR experience etc.
I just had a question about the use of checklists during the test; for my FAA one I was taught to learn all airborne ones but occasionally refer to the written checklists during quiet periods of the flight to make sure I haven't missed anything. It has always been my practice right from first PPL lessons onwards to say checks aloud and I've always done this even when flying by myself.
For the JAR IR I've been told to again learn all airborne but that the examiner does not necessarily expect to hear checks said aloud and that icing checks etc can be be indicated by very obviously looking at the OAT.
Now obviously I'm going to do what I've been taught by my instructor and he knows what the particular examiner is likely to expect of me - however I have heard different things being taught for the IRT - airborne use of the written checklist etc by other schools...I was just curious to hear from some instructors/examiners who were familiar with the IRT to see what they usually expected from candidates during the test in terms of their checklist use and style. I'm not looking for advice as such (I think my instructor has that covered...) I'm just curious to see what other people do.
I just had a question about the use of checklists during the test; for my FAA one I was taught to learn all airborne ones but occasionally refer to the written checklists during quiet periods of the flight to make sure I haven't missed anything. It has always been my practice right from first PPL lessons onwards to say checks aloud and I've always done this even when flying by myself.
For the JAR IR I've been told to again learn all airborne but that the examiner does not necessarily expect to hear checks said aloud and that icing checks etc can be be indicated by very obviously looking at the OAT.
Now obviously I'm going to do what I've been taught by my instructor and he knows what the particular examiner is likely to expect of me - however I have heard different things being taught for the IRT - airborne use of the written checklist etc by other schools...I was just curious to hear from some instructors/examiners who were familiar with the IRT to see what they usually expected from candidates during the test in terms of their checklist use and style. I'm not looking for advice as such (I think my instructor has that covered...) I'm just curious to see what other people do.
Last edited by Contacttower; 11th March 2012 at 23:59.
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: UK
On the ground, I've always been taught to do the checks from memory and then refer to the check list to check I hadn't missed any items.
In the air, I've always been taught to do all checks from memory, unless it's part of the emergency/abnormal checklist and contains items that aren't required to be commited to memory.
In the air, I've always been taught to do all checks from memory, unless it's part of the emergency/abnormal checklist and contains items that aren't required to be commited to memory.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: My house
Essentially I don't think it matters a great deal.
The issue is heads down. If you are spending time reading checklist items such that the aircraft wanders from the heading/alt/speed then you are not managing the flight efficiently. However if you try and memorise the checklist such that you miss vital items then again flight performance will suffer.
The examiner will draw an overall view of you from the moment the flight start with pax briefings etc.
I would however always operate the aircraft according to the phase of flight as others have suggested. On the ground you have time to follow the checklist but always try and show that you have read the flight manual ( during the idle check show you know the limits).
During critical phases of flight I would perhaps suggest that you memorise the checks but always, always, always reference the checklist.
I would however avoid doing ice checks silently, if the examiner misses them he may think you have forgotten. Do lots at the start of the flight and hopefully he will ask you to stop.
Best of luck with the test my friend.
The issue is heads down. If you are spending time reading checklist items such that the aircraft wanders from the heading/alt/speed then you are not managing the flight efficiently. However if you try and memorise the checklist such that you miss vital items then again flight performance will suffer.
The examiner will draw an overall view of you from the moment the flight start with pax briefings etc.
I would however always operate the aircraft according to the phase of flight as others have suggested. On the ground you have time to follow the checklist but always try and show that you have read the flight manual ( during the idle check show you know the limits).
During critical phases of flight I would perhaps suggest that you memorise the checks but always, always, always reference the checklist.
I would however avoid doing ice checks silently, if the examiner misses them he may think you have forgotten. Do lots at the start of the flight and hopefully he will ask you to stop.
Best of luck with the test my friend.
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My experience of the JAA IRT, done in Jan this year, with a CAA staff examiner, was that he was a lot more concerned with flying than with checklist use when in the air.
ISTM that it is a lot more important on the ground, which to me would seem right anyway, because when hand flying in "IMC" you are working like a one armed bandit anyway and don't want to be fumbling around with checklists.
What helps for example is the Jepp plate "briefing strip" which, when you work through it left to right, means you cannot miss getting the ATIS, etc.
There are some "charade" items. You have to do the "ice check" callout every 1000ft in the climb and every 5 mins in the air, though this is evidently not "pass critical" and anyway after a while he will tell you to not bother anymore. Everybody knows that in real life you don't bother in VMC and do it like a hawk in IMC below 0C. Navaid identing has to be called out using the full alphabet "VOR sierra foxtrot delta identified", etc.
What I keep hearing from old hands is that preflight preparation is important. If you do a sloppy preflight and a sloppy taxi then anybody will wonder what they are doing sitting next to you
The principle that the first substantial mistake is a guaranteed fail is a myth (well, not with certain examiners who are still out there today, and I am not referring to CAA staff ones either, necessarily; some of the "industry" ones are regarded as sadists....) You can build up a lot of credit before you even get into the plane, and an experienced pilot will be at a huge potential advantage there over a FTO graduate who is just reciting the teaching.
The conventional wisdom is that you must get an instructor who knows the protocol, and I would agree, but my experience of the IRT reasonableness was very positive. He was very professional and made allowances here and there. I would happily fly again with him anytime, which I would not say for any other examiner I ever flew with except the FAA CPL one.
I did a very long writeup on the JAA IR process here. It covers the IRT briefly.
ISTM that it is a lot more important on the ground, which to me would seem right anyway, because when hand flying in "IMC" you are working like a one armed bandit anyway and don't want to be fumbling around with checklists.
What helps for example is the Jepp plate "briefing strip" which, when you work through it left to right, means you cannot miss getting the ATIS, etc.
There are some "charade" items. You have to do the "ice check" callout every 1000ft in the climb and every 5 mins in the air, though this is evidently not "pass critical" and anyway after a while he will tell you to not bother anymore. Everybody knows that in real life you don't bother in VMC and do it like a hawk in IMC below 0C. Navaid identing has to be called out using the full alphabet "VOR sierra foxtrot delta identified", etc.
What I keep hearing from old hands is that preflight preparation is important. If you do a sloppy preflight and a sloppy taxi then anybody will wonder what they are doing sitting next to you
The principle that the first substantial mistake is a guaranteed fail is a myth (well, not with certain examiners who are still out there today, and I am not referring to CAA staff ones either, necessarily; some of the "industry" ones are regarded as sadists....) You can build up a lot of credit before you even get into the plane, and an experienced pilot will be at a huge potential advantage there over a FTO graduate who is just reciting the teaching.The conventional wisdom is that you must get an instructor who knows the protocol, and I would agree, but my experience of the IRT reasonableness was very positive. He was very professional and made allowances here and there. I would happily fly again with him anytime, which I would not say for any other examiner I ever flew with except the FAA CPL one.
I did a very long writeup on the JAA IR process here. It covers the IRT briefly.
Thread Starter
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Winchester
Best of luck with the test my friend.
Icing I commented on the OAT a few times, 'thought aloud' about using the deicing equipment a few times and very obviously looked at both wings regularly during the flight. I think the examiner got the point that I was thinking about it.
I didn't really like the idea of 'pretending' to be in icing conditions during the flight and I judged with the specific examiner I had that if I constantly made references to ice that was obviously not going to materialise he would think that I was being superfluous. He didn't comment on it during the debrief so I can only assume that was OK.
