C172 and check lists
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Pilot DAR, are you seriously saying that on short finals, either VFR or IFR, your attention is on your lap on some piece of paper, be that a checklist or an approach plate?
Of course, that pilot will also have assured reasonable situational awareness, so it is very unlikely that another aircraft will surprise him/her by "popping" into the safe zone around their approach path.
When a pilot is "ahead" of the aircraft, the checks are a natural flow, and no, in the last mile of final approach, my paper checklist will be put away, with any remaining items briefed (even just to myself) as "to go".
As long as pilots will always honour up in the case where something went not so well, as a result of a missed checklist item, things should be okay. When I'm flying the Caravan, or Navajo, I'm just not willing to depend upon my memory, for that unfamiliar aircraft, so I use the paper. It's my choice, and I won't accept criticism for doing things as the manufacturer intended. For most every other type, It's usually from memory, and occasionally, I forget something (fuel pump on the 172).
It's just the silly lawsuits and so forth, which the aircraft manufacturers must endure, which drives them to put more and more in the checklist, then the operator adds to that! The other of my two planes has the entire checklist - all phases - as a brief placard on the instrument panel. Perfect! (you'll never know if I'm reading it or not!)
Sure, memorize the checklist, but take full responsibility if you miss something. It's no one else's fault!
But, Transport Canada will not approve a flight manual supplement I produce, without required checklist changes identified as such. I'm sure that TC expects that the new checklist items associated with the mod will be accomplished per stage of flight. When I did my last ride, memory was not an acceptable means of accomplishing a checklist - it would be a fail, and I was warned beforehand by the examiner - I think I know why!
As long as students, and new pilots, have the whole picture, not just their rock solid minded instructor's view on the requirements, all is well. One day, they might be flying something, where failure to use the checklist, combined with failed or distracted memory, results in expensive scraping, splashing, or silent sounds!
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I think it much comes down to how familiar/recent one is flying a particular machine. With 1500+ hrs in a C172 I rarely use checklists and do things from memory. Why? Save some time and money, yes, honestly. On a Flight Instructor budget I didn't drag around on the ground on the occasional spins I took for the pleasure of flying a bit myself and with friends. Of course something I had to take responsibility for, but with the familiarity and recency I considered the fact that I would forget something vital quite slim.
If I jump into an aircraft that I haven't flown that much, or haven't flown in a while, then I would certainly use the checklists. It will reduce my mental workload.
When I was teaching, checklists were used from day 1. Exception was traffic pattern where flows were committed to memory and eyes were focusing outside. At latter stages of there training I did remove the checklists, to have the student show me they could understand and operate the aircraft without a list telling them what to do. At this point they already had a sound attitude towards the use checklists and the objective of the exercise was something else.
If I jump into an aircraft that I haven't flown that much, or haven't flown in a while, then I would certainly use the checklists. It will reduce my mental workload.
When I was teaching, checklists were used from day 1. Exception was traffic pattern where flows were committed to memory and eyes were focusing outside. At latter stages of there training I did remove the checklists, to have the student show me they could understand and operate the aircraft without a list telling them what to do. At this point they already had a sound attitude towards the use checklists and the objective of the exercise was something else.
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To checklist or not to?
If a checklist is used it has to be done right or it can be more unsafe than not using it, this includes a couple of basic principles,
1. A checklist should be just that - a check of items done
2. A checklist should have the minimum items on it that if NOT done it will affect the safety of the flight
(Long and pointless checklists will be ignored!)
3. Do lists should be a learning tool really, unless it is related to an abnormal/emergency or unusual procedure which is not time critical
(A do list is less safe than a checklist since it doesn't check anything, it is better to use in unfamiliar situations like abnormals because the unfamiliarity would prevent doing flow items effectively)
4. Single pilot airborne checks should be as hands free as possible especially if used in a critical phase like before landing eg control column checklist.
(for obvious reasons - regardless of type)
There are plenty of studies around on line that support this, and it translates for any aircraft, anything else is speculation.
IMHO acronyms are a good way of actioning a memory checklist to be hands free, avoiding the distraction of being head down - after takeoff downwind and final for example. I personally like generic checks or acronyms for light aircraft, since it is easier to avoid if you chop and change a lot, albeit this does contradict point two a little.
A your standard C172 wouldn't need a long checklist, ...
your C172 variants demonstrate the critical importance of a checklist even for such a seemingly simple aircraft.
Forgive me, I had to skim most of this, and I do say: cut the CRAP! The acronym and otherwise....
1. A checklist should be just that - a check of items done
2. A checklist should have the minimum items on it that if NOT done it will affect the safety of the flight
(Long and pointless checklists will be ignored!)
3. Do lists should be a learning tool really, unless it is related to an abnormal/emergency or unusual procedure which is not time critical
(A do list is less safe than a checklist since it doesn't check anything, it is better to use in unfamiliar situations like abnormals because the unfamiliarity would prevent doing flow items effectively)
4. Single pilot airborne checks should be as hands free as possible especially if used in a critical phase like before landing eg control column checklist.
(for obvious reasons - regardless of type)
There are plenty of studies around on line that support this, and it translates for any aircraft, anything else is speculation.
IMHO acronyms are a good way of actioning a memory checklist to be hands free, avoiding the distraction of being head down - after takeoff downwind and final for example. I personally like generic checks or acronyms for light aircraft, since it is easier to avoid if you chop and change a lot, albeit this does contradict point two a little.
A your standard C172 wouldn't need a long checklist, ...
your C172 variants demonstrate the critical importance of a checklist even for such a seemingly simple aircraft.Forgive me, I had to skim most of this, and I do say: cut the CRAP! The acronym and otherwise....
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I am a very new pilot.
I really like the way that I was taught : use the checklists when you have time and do things from memory when you don't.
One obviously has time on the ground so there is no point in taking the risk of missing something during the pre-flight, start-up, taxi, run up, pre take-off (including a review of non standard take off procedures like short / soft field takeoffs and a repeat of the altitude decision for return to the field rather than a forced landing straight ahead after an engine failure after take-off etc), cleaning up clear of the runway after landing and shutdown etc.
An engine failure at 500 ft AGL doesn't really give one a lot of time so the scan and memory will have to be relied upon. An engine failure at 5,500 ft AGL gives one a lot of time. After trimming up to a glide speed of 68kts in a C172 and a quick scan, there is a lot of time to go over the checklist to make sure that nothing was missed (the fuel pump in my case by way of example).
In a stall, slow flight, recovering from unusual attitudes "under the hood" etc, memory has to be relied upon as there is simply no time to refer to a checklist.
Memory is a funny thing. I know that it gets very easy to forget logical steps when relying on memory under stress. If I am guilty of this error when an examiner is the source of the stress, I know that it will be much easier to forget a step when the source of the stress is a prop that has stopped turning.
The last check that I was taught do in the pattern is the GUMPS mnemonic (go juice, undercarriage, mixture, pitch and seat belts) abeam midfield on the downwind leg. Everything after that is about looking out of the window and flying the aeroplane.
I really like the way that I was taught : use the checklists when you have time and do things from memory when you don't.
One obviously has time on the ground so there is no point in taking the risk of missing something during the pre-flight, start-up, taxi, run up, pre take-off (including a review of non standard take off procedures like short / soft field takeoffs and a repeat of the altitude decision for return to the field rather than a forced landing straight ahead after an engine failure after take-off etc), cleaning up clear of the runway after landing and shutdown etc.
An engine failure at 500 ft AGL doesn't really give one a lot of time so the scan and memory will have to be relied upon. An engine failure at 5,500 ft AGL gives one a lot of time. After trimming up to a glide speed of 68kts in a C172 and a quick scan, there is a lot of time to go over the checklist to make sure that nothing was missed (the fuel pump in my case by way of example).
In a stall, slow flight, recovering from unusual attitudes "under the hood" etc, memory has to be relied upon as there is simply no time to refer to a checklist.
Memory is a funny thing. I know that it gets very easy to forget logical steps when relying on memory under stress. If I am guilty of this error when an examiner is the source of the stress, I know that it will be much easier to forget a step when the source of the stress is a prop that has stopped turning.
The last check that I was taught do in the pattern is the GUMPS mnemonic (go juice, undercarriage, mixture, pitch and seat belts) abeam midfield on the downwind leg. Everything after that is about looking out of the window and flying the aeroplane.
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What about the legality part of checklist?
If I were in an accident / incident (touch wood!) and the investigators found that the checklist was not in hand / in the aircraft, wouldn't I be in trouble?
If I were in an accident / incident (touch wood!) and the investigators found that the checklist was not in hand / in the aircraft, wouldn't I be in trouble?
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In hand, probably not, and very hard to prove, unless you admit, and I would not say anything in that regard after the event.
In the plane, well in Canada it is required by regulation (quoted in my post #19).
In the plane, well in Canada it is required by regulation (quoted in my post #19).
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Legality of Checklists
It depends on the air law - which will be both the country and operator specific, in a private operation, for a light aircraft (excluding the Canadians 
if you say so DAR), normally a check list is not legally required.
if you say so DAR), normally a check list is not legally required.
Moderator
Yes, it would appear that our Canadian regulations are a bit more strict on this than other nation's. I'm not familiar with the requirements of other nations.
But, you don't have to dig too far into the FAA FARs to find other examples where checklist use is required, for only slightly larger aircraft (elsewhere it mentions six seats).
For example:
Subpart K--Fractional Ownership Operations
Sec. 91.1033
[Operating information required. ]
[(a) Each program manager must, for all program operations, provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station, and the pilot must use them--
(1) A cockpit checklist;
.................
For those who suggest that checklists can be memorized for certain phases of flight, it would appear that doing so (not reading from the paper) for fractional ownership operations, would not comply with the FARs. I agree that the checklist for a 172 can be adequately memorized, but if you're transitioning to a larger type, of fractional ownership, you'll have to get back into the habit of reading the paper checklist.
But, you don't have to dig too far into the FAA FARs to find other examples where checklist use is required, for only slightly larger aircraft (elsewhere it mentions six seats).
For example:
Subpart K--Fractional Ownership Operations
Program Management
Sec. 91.1033
[Operating information required. ]
[(a) Each program manager must, for all program operations, provide the following materials, in current and appropriate form, accessible to the pilot at the pilot station, and the pilot must use them--
(1) A cockpit checklist;
.................
For those who suggest that checklists can be memorized for certain phases of flight, it would appear that doing so (not reading from the paper) for fractional ownership operations, would not comply with the FARs. I agree that the checklist for a 172 can be adequately memorized, but if you're transitioning to a larger type, of fractional ownership, you'll have to get back into the habit of reading the paper checklist.
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in Germany it is required by law (§ 27 LuftBO) and can be fined (§ 57 No. 3d LuftVO).
In our clubs we have copies of check-lists, based on the original in the flight manual. Of course there is lots you can commit to memory, but it's good to have it to recheck in case of a stress situation. I do check mine after the walk-around and before take-off. I sometimes check it before entering base (important if you have a retract gear). Since over the years I have flown MANY different types of aircraft and each is different, it's good to have that peace of paper handy. When I instructed, each student received their own copy and of course I also had mine.
I really don't know why it's such an issue.
In our clubs we have copies of check-lists, based on the original in the flight manual. Of course there is lots you can commit to memory, but it's good to have it to recheck in case of a stress situation. I do check mine after the walk-around and before take-off. I sometimes check it before entering base (important if you have a retract gear). Since over the years I have flown MANY different types of aircraft and each is different, it's good to have that peace of paper handy. When I instructed, each student received their own copy and of course I also had mine.
I really don't know why it's such an issue.
If anyone is interested I have copied the checklist I use when conducting training in a C 172. To put it in context a bit of checklist philosophy.
The reality is that a C 172 is such a simple airplane it is hard to screw up so badly that safety is significantly compromised. Therefore you can, and many do, fly without any checklist use at all. I supposed this is OK if you never aspire to fly anything more than a C172, but if you are intending a career flying commercially or flying more advanced aircraft then this approach is not IMO appropriate. To that end I apply the checklist philosophy used in larger more complex aircraft ( that is how the checklist is organized, checklists section headers, flow checks etc) in order to get the student use to how formal checklists are used in each phase of flight.
Pre-Start (do list)
Dispatch Checklist----------Complete
Passenger Brief-------------Complete
HOBB----------------------Record
Avionics & Electrical Eq-----Off
Circuit Breakers------------In
Start (do list)
Fuel Selector---------------Both
Carb Heat------------------Cold
Throttle--------------------Open 1/2"
Mixture---------------------Rich
Prime-----------------------As required
Master---------------------On
Beacon---------------------On
Nav Light-------------------On (at night)
Prop------------------------Clear
After Start (checklist)
Throttle-------------------1000RPM
Ammeter-------------------Light Out
Oil Pressure----------------Rising
Brakes---------------------Check
Pre-Taxi (Do list)
Flaps----------------------Up
Avionics Master------------On
Transponder---------------Code set & Standby
Altimeter------------------Set
Heading Indicator----------Set
Fuel Selector--------------Both & Quantity checked
Instruments---------------Check on Taxi
Run Up (do list PPL, Checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Fuel Selector-------------Both & Qty.
Oil Temp. & Press---------Green
Mixture-------------------Rich
Throttle------------------1700RPM
Suction Gauge------------4.5 - 5.4
Oil Temp. & Press---------Green
Alternator----------------Check charging
Mags---------------------Check
Carb Heat----------------Hot
Mixture------------------Check
Throttle-----------------Idle Check
Carb Heat----------------Cold
Thottle------------------1000RPM
Pre-Takeoff (do list to the line, memory items below the line)
Belts & Doors & Seats-----------Secure
Fuel Selector-------------------Both & Quantity checked
Trim----------------------------Set for T/O
Carb Heat-----------------------Cold
Mixture------------------------- Rich
Flaps----------------------------Set
Primer--------------------------In & Locked
Mags---------------------------Both
Oil Temp. & Press---------------Green
Heading Indicator---------------Set
Controls------------------------Free & Correct
T/O Brief-----------------------Complete
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time---------------------------Record
Strobe Lights-------------------On
Transponder--------------------Alt
Landing Light-------------------On (when cleared for T/O)
Cruise Check (do list PPL, checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Throttle-----------------------RPM Set
Carb Heat---------------------Check
Mixture------------------------Lean as Req.
Heading Indicator--------------Set
Landing Light------------------Off
Flight Plan---------------------Open
Descent & Approach (do list PPL, checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Fuel Selector-----------------Both & Quantity
Mixture-----------------------Rich
Landing light------------------On
Altimeter---------------------Set
Oil Temp. & Press-------------Green
Approach---------------------Briefed
Pre Landing (Memory flow)
Fuel Selector---------------Both & Quantity checked
Mixture---------------------Rich
Brakes---------------------Check
Carb Heat------------------as req
After Landing (checklist)
Carb Heat-----------------Cold
Flaps----------------------Up
Transponder---------------Off
Landing Light--------------Off
Strobe Lights--------------Off
Time----------------------Record
Shut Down (Do list)
Electrical Equip------------Off
Avionics Master-----------Off
Mags---------------------Cycle
Fuel----------------------Both
Mixture-------------------ICO
Mags---------------------Off
Beacon-------------------On
Master-------------------Off
HOBBs--------------------Record
Control Lock--------------Install
Flight Plan----------------Closed
Notes:
1) Checks are designed with a consistent flow. They start at the fuel selector and make a counter clockwise flow around the instrument panel ending at the throttle quadrant
2) "do list" means read the item do the action, then move to the next line on the checklist
3) "checklist" means all the actions are performed as a flow and then when complete and time/situation permitting the checklist is reviewed to make sure nothing was forgotten.
4) By " PPL" I mean a student doing ab intio training. By advanced PPL I mean a already licensed PPL who is doing further training
The reality is that a C 172 is such a simple airplane it is hard to screw up so badly that safety is significantly compromised. Therefore you can, and many do, fly without any checklist use at all. I supposed this is OK if you never aspire to fly anything more than a C172, but if you are intending a career flying commercially or flying more advanced aircraft then this approach is not IMO appropriate. To that end I apply the checklist philosophy used in larger more complex aircraft ( that is how the checklist is organized, checklists section headers, flow checks etc) in order to get the student use to how formal checklists are used in each phase of flight.
Pre-Start (do list)
Dispatch Checklist----------Complete
Passenger Brief-------------Complete
HOBB----------------------Record
Avionics & Electrical Eq-----Off
Circuit Breakers------------In
Start (do list)
Fuel Selector---------------Both
Carb Heat------------------Cold
Throttle--------------------Open 1/2"
Mixture---------------------Rich
Prime-----------------------As required
Master---------------------On
Beacon---------------------On
Nav Light-------------------On (at night)
Prop------------------------Clear
After Start (checklist)
Throttle-------------------1000RPM
Ammeter-------------------Light Out
Oil Pressure----------------Rising
Brakes---------------------Check
Pre-Taxi (Do list)
Flaps----------------------Up
Avionics Master------------On
Transponder---------------Code set & Standby
Altimeter------------------Set
Heading Indicator----------Set
Fuel Selector--------------Both & Quantity checked
Instruments---------------Check on Taxi
Run Up (do list PPL, Checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Fuel Selector-------------Both & Qty.
Oil Temp. & Press---------Green
Mixture-------------------Rich
Throttle------------------1700RPM
Suction Gauge------------4.5 - 5.4
Oil Temp. & Press---------Green
Alternator----------------Check charging
Mags---------------------Check
Carb Heat----------------Hot
Mixture------------------Check
Throttle-----------------Idle Check
Carb Heat----------------Cold
Thottle------------------1000RPM
Pre-Takeoff (do list to the line, memory items below the line)
Belts & Doors & Seats-----------Secure
Fuel Selector-------------------Both & Quantity checked
Trim----------------------------Set for T/O
Carb Heat-----------------------Cold
Mixture------------------------- Rich
Flaps----------------------------Set
Primer--------------------------In & Locked
Mags---------------------------Both
Oil Temp. & Press---------------Green
Heading Indicator---------------Set
Controls------------------------Free & Correct
T/O Brief-----------------------Complete
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time---------------------------Record
Strobe Lights-------------------On
Transponder--------------------Alt
Landing Light-------------------On (when cleared for T/O)
Cruise Check (do list PPL, checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Throttle-----------------------RPM Set
Carb Heat---------------------Check
Mixture------------------------Lean as Req.
Heading Indicator--------------Set
Landing Light------------------Off
Flight Plan---------------------Open
Descent & Approach (do list PPL, checklist advanced PPL/CPL)
Fuel Selector-----------------Both & Quantity
Mixture-----------------------Rich
Landing light------------------On
Altimeter---------------------Set
Oil Temp. & Press-------------Green
Approach---------------------Briefed
Pre Landing (Memory flow)
Fuel Selector---------------Both & Quantity checked
Mixture---------------------Rich
Brakes---------------------Check
Carb Heat------------------as req
After Landing (checklist)
Carb Heat-----------------Cold
Flaps----------------------Up
Transponder---------------Off
Landing Light--------------Off
Strobe Lights--------------Off
Time----------------------Record
Shut Down (Do list)
Electrical Equip------------Off
Avionics Master-----------Off
Mags---------------------Cycle
Fuel----------------------Both
Mixture-------------------ICO
Mags---------------------Off
Beacon-------------------On
Master-------------------Off
HOBBs--------------------Record
Control Lock--------------Install
Flight Plan----------------Closed
Notes:
1) Checks are designed with a consistent flow. They start at the fuel selector and make a counter clockwise flow around the instrument panel ending at the throttle quadrant
2) "do list" means read the item do the action, then move to the next line on the checklist
3) "checklist" means all the actions are performed as a flow and then when complete and time/situation permitting the checklist is reviewed to make sure nothing was forgotten.
4) By " PPL" I mean a student doing ab intio training. By advanced PPL I mean a already licensed PPL who is doing further training
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 30th Dec 2011 at 23:38.
