Logging time as instructor?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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What is more concerning is 'trail' lessons operated as pleasure flights with passengers in the back, which is questionable whether it should require an AOC, but the CAA have turned a blind eye to that for years!
GASIL 1 of 2002
Trial Lessons
Some years ago we published an article on trial lessons in this magazine. In the light of apparent recent misunderstandings of the position, it has been suggested that we print it again, so we reproduce it here.
First of all there is no such thing in law as a “trial lesson” as opposed to any other sort of flying lesson. A “trial lesson” is simply a first lesson which may or may not be followed by subsequent lessons. It follows that it is an instructional flight and should be conducted as such; and an abbreviated exercise such as “effects of controls” or “straight and level” should be taught. If no instruction is given and the “student” who paid for the flight is merely a passenger, the flight must be classed as public transport.
Secondly, there is nothing in law to prevent the carriage of non-paying passengers on an instructional flight, apart, of course, from solo flights by a student pilot. If any passenger has paid to be carried, the flight is classed as public transport, and is illegal unless the operator holds an AOC (aircraft operators certificate).
Some years ago, the CAA’s Operations Advisory Committee considered this subject, and concluded that there were occasions where the carriage of non-paying passengers would be beneficial; for instance, fellow students observing a navigational exercise. Similarly, a husband, wife, fiancé(e) or other close relative could be considered to be closely connected with the outcome of the “trial lesson”, and therefore would benefit from being a non-paying passenger.
To summarise:
a. A “trial lesson” is an instructional flight and should be conducted as such.
b. Non-paying passengers may legally be carried on such a flight.
c. It may be considered good practice to carry only non-paying passengers who should derive some benefit from his or her carriage on the flight.
Trial Lessons
Some years ago we published an article on trial lessons in this magazine. In the light of apparent recent misunderstandings of the position, it has been suggested that we print it again, so we reproduce it here.
First of all there is no such thing in law as a “trial lesson” as opposed to any other sort of flying lesson. A “trial lesson” is simply a first lesson which may or may not be followed by subsequent lessons. It follows that it is an instructional flight and should be conducted as such; and an abbreviated exercise such as “effects of controls” or “straight and level” should be taught. If no instruction is given and the “student” who paid for the flight is merely a passenger, the flight must be classed as public transport.
Secondly, there is nothing in law to prevent the carriage of non-paying passengers on an instructional flight, apart, of course, from solo flights by a student pilot. If any passenger has paid to be carried, the flight is classed as public transport, and is illegal unless the operator holds an AOC (aircraft operators certificate).
Some years ago, the CAA’s Operations Advisory Committee considered this subject, and concluded that there were occasions where the carriage of non-paying passengers would be beneficial; for instance, fellow students observing a navigational exercise. Similarly, a husband, wife, fiancé(e) or other close relative could be considered to be closely connected with the outcome of the “trial lesson”, and therefore would benefit from being a non-paying passenger.
To summarise:
a. A “trial lesson” is an instructional flight and should be conducted as such.
b. Non-paying passengers may legally be carried on such a flight.
c. It may be considered good practice to carry only non-paying passengers who should derive some benefit from his or her carriage on the flight.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Thanks MrMum
I must have missed that one, that clarifies the position.
I suppose it's down to the individual instructor and the insurance liability. I once did a 'trial lesson/air experianceflight/intoductory flying lesson' whatever you call it with a consultant surgeon and his two young children, and on advice of my solicitor, and tried to avoid them thereafter on the basis that there was unlikely insufficient insurance, in place, worse scenario three critally injured occupants of the aircraft. Food for thought.
I must have missed that one, that clarifies the position.
I suppose it's down to the individual instructor and the insurance liability. I once did a 'trial lesson/air experianceflight/intoductory flying lesson' whatever you call it with a consultant surgeon and his two young children, and on advice of my solicitor, and tried to avoid them thereafter on the basis that there was unlikely insufficient insurance, in place, worse scenario three critally injured occupants of the aircraft. Food for thought.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I agree with posts #4 and #10, key here is the medical.
If the person simply hasn’t got around to renewing their medical then they arguably could be fit to fly. It could then be considered an instructional flight, the poster books P1 and instructional time. The student Put.
On the other hand if the person’s medical has been revoked. Then it has been proven that they are unfit to fly. The ANO is quite clear. That person cannot act as crew. The person is then a passenger and cannot book any time. The poster then books P1 but not any instructional time.
Who owns the aircraft? Is money involved? An owner may employ the services of a commercial pilot to fly them in a private flight. Other than that if money is involved I think it going to be an AOC job.
If the person simply hasn’t got around to renewing their medical then they arguably could be fit to fly. It could then be considered an instructional flight, the poster books P1 and instructional time. The student Put.
On the other hand if the person’s medical has been revoked. Then it has been proven that they are unfit to fly. The ANO is quite clear. That person cannot act as crew. The person is then a passenger and cannot book any time. The poster then books P1 but not any instructional time.
Who owns the aircraft? Is money involved? An owner may employ the services of a commercial pilot to fly them in a private flight. Other than that if money is involved I think it going to be an AOC job.
Then it has been proven that they are unfit to fly. The ANO is quite clear. That person cannot act as crew.
without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Or, do you just log the flight as P1 with nothing in the instructor column?
