Can you instruct on a class 2 medical?

[18greens]

I was looking though LASORS and couldn't find the answer.

If you hold a CPL and FI(A) rating and let your Class1 medical lapse to class 2 can you continue to instruct without remuneration? (The reason for asking is that the possible remuneration I'll get over the next year isn't that much different to the cost of the medical) I'd like to save the time and money if its legal.

[mad_jock]

yep you can instruct on a class 2 for no remuneration.

You can claim out of pocket expenses though.

[topoverhaul]

Yes, the appropriate medical certificate for a PPL is a Class 2, instruction is permitted if appropriately qualified, but without remuneration.

[18greens]

Good news. Thanks.

Where is that written down. Lasors section A5 just says you need an appropriate medical...

[Whopity]

Where is that written down

JAR–FCL 1.105 Medical fitness
An applicant for a PPL(A) shall hold a valid
Class 1 or Class 2 medical certificate. In order to
exercise the privileges of a PPL(A) a valid Class
1 or Class 2 medical certificate shall be held.

ANO Schedule 7 UK Licence

(3) (a) The holder may fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of aerial work which consists of instruction or testing in a club environment provided that, in the case of instruction, the licence
includes a flying instructor’s rating, class rating instructor rating, flight instructor rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating.

JAA Licence

(4) If the licence includes a flying instructor’s rating, a flight instructor rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating by virtue of which the holder is entitled to give instruction in flying microlight aeroplanes or SLMGs the holder may fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of aerial work consisting of instruction or testing in a club environment and receive remuneration for the giving of such instruction or the conducting of such flying tests.

None of these privileges contain any requirement for a medical higher than Class 2. Interestingly the EASA letter on the CAA website is incorrect regarding PPL privileges; since the introduction of JAR-FCL there has never been a requirement for anything other than a Class 2 medical to exercise the privileges of a FI rating on a PPL.

Pre JAR-FCl an FI operating on a PPL had to have a Class 2 as opposed to a Class 3 medical, but that was over 11 years ago.

[BEagle]

Whopity, I have pointed out several errors in the first version of the FAQs on the CAA website; as a result the second version includes a correction to Q6. I've been given an advance copy of the second version, but it hasn't yet been published on the CAA's website.

Nevertheless, it will make it abundantly clear that a JAA Class 1 Medical Certificate is NOT needed by a PPL/FI; neither will a part-MED Class 1 Medical Certificate be required for remunerated instruction under EASA part-FCL conducted by a PPL/FI.

A PPL/FI without CPL-level knowledge will be permitted to instruct for the LAPL, but not for the PPL.

A PPL/CRI will not need CPL-level knowledge.

If the 'PPL' course is cunningly structured as 'LAPL' course plus LAPL-to-PPL conversion, only 6 of the total hours would need to have been taught by a 'CPL-level knowledge' FI..... Whereas if the course is structured as a 'PPL' course, all the 25 hours of dual instruction would need to have been taught by a 'CPL-level knowledge' FI. Some of my colleagues on the EASA part-FCL Policy Group were rather unimpressed that I'd identified this lawful way around the 'CPL-level knowledge' nonsense for PPL/FIs! But since it is very difficult for them to change their beloved rules, they're stuck with it..

[blagger]

Isn't all that missing the issue that the OP has a CPL therefore needs a Class 1? Unless he/she has their original UK PPL still which they can use with the Class 2 medical?

or are people saying that you can use a CPL with a Class 2 as long as you only exercise PPL priveleges?

[mad_jock]

Yep thats what we are saying blagger. The op has worked out for the amount of money that they would earn by having the class one would be less than the cost of obtaining it.

But there is nothing wrong with the punter paying 50p a mile expenses for 18greens drive to the airport.

[BEagle]

50p per mile is pushing it! Included in the recent budget was an increase in the amount that can be claimed tax free for business mileage. The new rates are 45p per mile for the first 10 000 miles and 25p per mile for any miles over 10 000 miles.

So 45p per mile would seem reasonable. Best to ensure that your car insurance includes business use if you're being paid for mileage.

[mad_jock]

Thats only for tax, the instructor can get payed for ground school.

You can charge how ever much you like for the car you just have to declare it and anything over the rate will get taxed.

It doesn't change the fact that your not charging for your in flight instruction.

It also doesn't stop the school paying for your medical including transport, your instructors renewal test, your pish seminar including HOTAC, transport etc. headset every three years, license renewal, all your flying kit, minus VAT of course.

Personally I would be able to kick the arse outa 1.5K in 3 years and never earn a penny. All my light aircraft ratings and currency are taken care of for 50 hours instructional flying. Which I reckon is pretty good value for something i enjoy anyway. If you add VAT and 40% tax onto that it gets silly.

If your an CRE etc crack on, 2.5k's worth wouldn't be to hard to justify.

[Whopity]

Isn't all that missing the issue that the OP has a CPL

ANO Schedule 7 - UK CPL

Privileges:
(1) The holder of a Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) is entitled to exercise the
privileges of a United Kingdom Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) which includes an
instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) and a night rating
(aeroplanes) or night qualification (aeroplane).

JAA CPL

Privileges and conditions:
(1) Subject to any conditions specified for the licence, the privileges of the holder of a
Commercial Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) are to:
(a) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a JAR-FCL Private Pilot Licence
(Aeroplane) which includes a night qualification;

A professional pilot really should know their licence privileges and where to find them.

[blagger]

Thanks for that admonishment Whopity. Well aware of licence privileges but I hadn't made the connection that you could just drop down to a Class 2 medical with a CPL and restrict yourself to the PPL embedded privileges.

[Dan the weegie]

Just to add to it, for the moment you can go on to a NPPL medical and fly under NPPL privs until your CPL expires.

[BEagle]

Just to add to it, for the moment you can go on to a NPPL medical and fly under NPPL privs until your CPL expires.

Or your SEP Class Rating is due for revalidation, whichever comes first! If you wish to go down this route ('ORS4 No816'), you will need to apply for an SSEA Class Rating to be included in your licence if you wish to fly after your SEP Class Rating is due for revalidation (assuming your CPL is still valid) - and don't forget the fee!

[ifitaintboeing]

Just to add to it, for the moment you can go on to a NPPL medical and fly under NPPL privs until your CPL expires.

But, you can't then instruct because you require a valid medical certificate....which a declaration isn't. Article 72 (2)

[timzsta]

What about all the PPL/FI's who got given BCPL's when JAR came in by the CAA? When EASA take over will they be able to continue instructing for the issue of PPL's as they never did any of the CPL written exams?

[Whopity]

Yes, they will continue with the same privileges CAA FAQ Question 11 and they will only need a Class II medical so they will save money.

[BillieBob]

To be accurate, they will continue with the same privileges until April 2014 after which they will be valid only on Annex II aircraft.

[Whopity]

Yes, I should have said that if they take the trouble to obtain a JAA PPL which is simply filling in a form and paying the money, they will also be able to exercise the privileges on an EASA aircraft. There are only about 100 of these licences remaining and many now hold a JAA PPL as well.

regarding the original question

as they never did any of the CPL written exams?

ICAO Annex 1 states that FIs should have demonstrated CPL level knowledge. At the time these FIs qualified, having passed the FIC pre-entry test, was regarded as meeting the ICAO requirement. Other countries regarded passing the CPL or even BCPL exams as qualifying and if we look back over the years there have been numerous other exemptions and credits. It is all irrelevant, they hold an ICAO qualification.