Airline Pilot to part time FI

[Dan Winterland]

Roy Boy.

Check with your employer first. My two employers while I was living in the UK both needed to know what hours I was doing out of work. The first (a UK LH airline) counted all hours done towards your limits. Even to the extent that one of my colleagues who used to fly to work in his own GA aircraft was stopped from doing so and made to drive instead - which he found far more tiring! The second worked on a non UK AOC where the FTLs made all flying accountable.

As to which type of instructor is better, the airline pilot or hours builder? Big debate - but one club I instructed at preferred the airline pilot. It held the view that the hours builder was less motivated to instruction gave the students poorer value.

[S-Works]

I'm minute building not hour building, it's pathetic, I'm on the brink of having to totally abandon aviation, there just isn't enough opportunity.

Teaching is about the student, not the minutes you get in your logbook. So what if you are not getting much time in the air, that still gives time for ground school and proper briefings.

Are are you telling me that you are only interested in teaching for what YOU get out of it? If that is the case then perhaps you should abandon aviation and leave it to those who consider the education of the student above their own needs?

The second worked on a non UK AOC where the FTLs made all flying accountable.

I work for a non UK AOC Operator and all our flying is counted for on FTL's however they are really flexible and let me teach outside of work, especially in the winter when we are quiet.

[VFE]

Nobody is saying we should instruct for our own needs entirely but there is a balance to be struck between delivering the student quality instruction and gaining something yourself. That is how the world works and I very much doubt that Bose-X instructs purely for the student's benefit either. Even if it's just the pleasure derived from teaching, you are still getting something from the deal. Or are we to believe that there's only Bose-X, Jesus and Mahatma Gandhi left?

VFE.

[flapsin]

I believe Jesus passed on in AD 0 and Ghandi in the 20th century, so I guess it's just Bose-X left!

[VFE]

Oh you spoilt the fun 'flapsin'! I was waiting for him to type that! LOL

VFE.

[james1013]

bose-x, yes I am only interested in what's in it for me, doesn't that make me perfect for aviation? and in order to take something out of FI-ing it starts with a satisfied customer, without that I can't achieve my evil plan to earn a living and move on in the world. And anyway I've already said sorry for my original post being a bit over the top and have stood corrected on a few points as to why it's a good idea to have real pilots in the club house, I'm afraid you arrived a little too late for any real sport based on my b*llsh*t. your turn.

[S-Works]

I could still smell blood......

[b2d]

I couldnt help but notice that FI's was viewed by most Instructos as a time building job to move on. Do you tell that to your students? If you do I wonder why you arnt flying much...

Why dont you take a minute and view it from the students prespective.
Wanting the best man or women for the job, the most experince, to bring to a learnng enviroment.

Look the fact is most Flight Instructors are struggling, but it doesnt make it right to say that you arent welcome becuse there isnt hours to go around for everyone, you should embrace the idea, and the potential for a different learning prespective.

Stay strong, and dont let the down cycle of the industry get the best of you.

I myself have instructed for over 8 years, from Flying clubs, to colloges, I recall my first 2 years instructing I flew 300 hours.
Then a little more time came after few years, then moved on to being the Chief for another 3 years. Belive me I thought I was stuck and was never going to move on. after 8 years in trainng I got out doing some operational flying on moslty light twins. That lasted for few years after that. Now I am unemployed with 3000 hours and 1000 hours multi, and 12 years in the industry. I manage to not let myself fall for the depression trap and belive me its hard.

As for the Airline dude that wants to instruct part time, I say do it, Flight trainig now a days could use industry experince on the top level to change the trend a little.
Maybe inspire the guys that are working with you and help them even if its just by motivation.

I think it could be a good thing, for everyone, co-workers, students and Schools. I am sure he isnt going to take flying hours away from the guys that are scraping by to pay rent.

Stay strong, Fly safe, and remember nothing ever stays the same. Tough times cant last forever, and good times always go un-noticed or too fast.

Find the balance in life. Start by looking in your back yard

[Capt Pit Bull]

Capt Pit Bull,

To use you analogy then we should never pick up friends and family from the airport as we are doing the poor, hard working taxi drivers out of a job as well.

Well, at the risk of stretching an already over stretched analogy; if you dropped Auntie Doris off at terminal 5 and then drove down to the taxi rank and yelled out "if anyone needs a lift into town I'll take you for a fiver" then you'd be out of order.

Working ad-hoc for a local flying club can hardly be seen as an attack on the full time Flying Instructors position.

You need to broaden your experience. Or open your eyes. There are plenty of unscrupulous folks in GA who will happily use 'divide and conquer' when there are extra hands about.

As long as the position is approached with common sense and sensitivity as to the concerns of the full time employees and an acceptance that the part time role is one of support it shouldn't be a problem.

Thats exactly what I said....

I made it clear to the company I worked for that I would only offer 'cover' when one of the full time pilots required it.

Certainly, as an airline pilot, I could not be relied upon to be able to step in short notice at any time during the month thus my role was seen more as 'if and when available'. As long as an accomodation is reached as to the specific role of part time instructors and their position within the heirarchy of the club then I don't see why it has to be such an onerous thing.

...and what I would expect.

I remember when I was an AFI, earning a tiny hourly rate, and someone turned up and offered to instruct for nothing. The guy wasn't an airline pilot, but was in a well paid profession.

Well, that's pretty much how it works in France, where the vast majority of instructors are unpaid volunteers, and they are respected precisely because of that.

Well, maybe I'm too materialistic, but nothing says 'respect' like a living wage. And nothing says 'sucker' like providing professional services for free.

It'll be a different story if someone applied for a job, and was given ½ of someone else's full time job thus making 2 part time instructors. Can you see this happening?

Yes, seen it happen, in various forms.

I couldnt help but notice that FI's was viewed by most Instructos as a time building job to move on.

Well of course it is; that's because at most places the T&Cs suck! I enjoyed my time instructing and at the time tried to make a career of it, but the pay was so awful I used to have to kip in a sleeping bag on the office floor. The only way I survived that period was by jacking in flying and working as a professional groundschool instructor for a few years until the next airline recruiting phase.

Its really simple, the problem with this industry is that a significant number of pilots simply can not focus on whether they are enthusiastic amateurs or serious professionals. Accordingly they are very vulnerable to unscrupulous employers.

And... To repeat another poster's post... It is an open market... More competition can only increase the quality of the instruction given. None of us have the right to moan about others wanting to get into instructing.

That doesn't follow. More competition tends to drive down prices and reduce quality of service. You end up with plenty of choice, but no quality. This applies in all markets.

In aviation, an influx of inexperienced instructors drives down pay and conditions then experienced professional instructors may move on.

pb

[Wirbelsturm]

You need to broaden your experience. Or open your eyes. There are plenty of unscrupulous folks in GA who will happily use 'divide and conquer' when there are extra hands about.

Oh, I think my experience base is broad enough and my eyes have been wide open for the past 26 years in the business . I have been an instructor on both fixed wing and rotary in the past and have worked in many varied aspects of aviation before choosing the airlines as my 'retirement' option.

The unscrupulous element in this equation, as you put it, would be the employers who utilise the experience of part time instructors to the detriment of the full time employees. Whilst not too prevelant within the GA environment the current legislative pressures don't help the employer either.

There seems to be broadly two 'camps' within the instructor community, those who wish to use instruction as a route into flying 'heavys' and those who have flown 'heavys' or commercial and want a rest/change. Granted there are also many who do GA instruction full time as they enjoy the challenge and don't want to fly the boring ATPL flights.

The simple answer is that utilising part time instructors can be of great advantage to any club. They bring different views on aviation from the professionals point of view to the enthusiasts point of view and all aspects between. The difficulty lies with the employer in how the integrate/utilise such opportunities without denigrating the responsibilities of the full time employees.

A fine line to tread and one that can be too time consuming and difficult for many small business employers.