Questions re FI(A) Practical Flying

[Speedbird715]

Having recently started FI(A) training here in Germany, I'm about 10 hours into the practical flying now. JAR-FCL doesn't seem very precise in defining a syllabus for this purpose. So basically I'm flying the PPL programme from the right seat again, so far doing mainly pattern work, stalls and steep turns.

This isn't bad per se, but since I'd like to get most out of the 30 hours required (especially in terms of aircraft control/handling), I wonder what you guys have done - what was your most memorable training flight from the right seat? Any exercises or eye-openers you can recommend?

And another thing - for the 5 hours of mutual flying with another FI student: Does JAR-FCL prohibit flying into another country on a long crosscountry? Our head of training thinks so, but I can't find any reference..

Many thanks guys!!

[binsleepen]

Hi,

I don't think it says what you need to do on your mutual however Nav takes up a very small if any part of the test. You would therefore be much better off using the 5 hours to practice the basic lessons of EoC, S+L, Climbing, Descending and Turning rather than going on a jolly.

On the test you will probably have to teach one of these basic lessons plus demonstrate stalling, circuits and a few other things.

Hope this helps

[Whopity]

JAR-FCL doesn't seem very precise in defining a syllabus for this purpose.

That is why JAR-FCL requires an Approved FTO to have a Training Manual that describes the course to be taught at that FTO. Does your FTO not have such a manual? This applies to all JAA training not just FI Courses.

for the 5 hours of mutual flying with another FI student: Does JAR-FCL prohibit flying into another country on a long crosscountry

The content of the course has to be approved; I can't imagine that any FIC instructor would plan a course like this and no competent authority would approve it. The purpose of mutual flying is to allow the student FI to practice the skills just learned with another trainee. Typically, a mutual flight should last 30 -45 minutes whilst you run through a typical PPL training exercise. There is nothing to be gained doing long cross country flights; in fact it would be a total waste of valuable time.

In my experience of teaching on a FIC it takes 20 hours to get to circuit flying which doesn't leave much time to cover all of the more advanced stuff.

[Speedbird715]

Okay, maybe I should put it differently: Of course we have a Training Manual, but essentially it is the PPL(A) syllabus from a different seat. With the addition of spin recovery, maybe. That's why I was wondering if anyone has done different / more advanced exercises in an FI course..

Regarding the 5 hours of mutual flying: Since not much time at all is spent on crosscountry work - wouldn't it make sense to brush up on pilotage, DR and radio nav? Is it really less important for the test?

Thanks for your inputs... oh and binsleepen, excuse my ignorance there: What's EoC and S+L?

[Whopity]

That's why I was wondering if anyone has done different / more advanced exercises in an FI course..

Then it would not be in accordance with the syllabus which is to learn to teach those exercises on a PPL Course.
EoC Effects of Controls S+L Straight and Level

wouldn't it make sense to brush up on pilotage, DR and radio nav?

There really isn't time in a 30 hour course to brush up on anything; the object of the course is to train a pilot how to teach basic exercises. It would be useful to do more navigation instruction than is currently done, but it is better to use the mutual time for students to practice teaching the more difficult exercises such as E of C; S&L; Stalling and PFLs with someone other than their instructor.

There is something of an assumption that if an instructor can teach the basic exercises they will be able to teach navigation; it is not necesarily correct but it is essential that the basic exercises are covered in detail. They will always form part of the initial test.

[Cows getting bigger]

I spent the vast majority of my FIC learning how to teach exercises 4-10, properly. The mutual bit was useful in revisiting 6-9.

[binsleepen]

Speedbird,

EoC and S&L already covered above.

In the UK the basic job of a FI(A) is to teach the PPL sylabus only. If an individual wishes to teach more advanced subjects i.e. night, aerobatics, instruments, twin etc then they need to do a further course to have that restriction removed.

Regards

[what next]

Hello!

I wonder what you guys have done - what was your most memorable training flight from the right seat?

When I did my FI course in 1992, things were a little different than now: We only needed 10 hours training, but had to have over 300 hours flying experience before starting the course. So cross country and navigation training was not covered at all. We really spent most of these 10 hours experimenting with the flying envelope of our training aircraft by doing stupid things (like steering with differential opening of the doors in a C152) and finding out what is the last possible moment to intervene for the FI if the student is not doing what he is supposed to.
My instructor wanted me to take control only if the situation got really dangerous and otherwise correct him/the student by giving verbal advice only (something I have been doing ever since, I don't think I have had to take over the controls more than 10 times in almost 20 years of instruction).

But the most remarkable flight during my FI course was the one when we went flying (including traffic patterns) in a 50kt wind using the good old C152. This flight showed me what the little aeroplane is capable of and how reliable and predictable it is in really extreme conditions. Once you have experienced this, you really need not worry about things the student might do wrong!

Have fun!
max

[mykul10]

I would support those who concentrate on ex 4-10, plus of course 12-16. I also include 17-19. Always focussing on my job to teach you to teach. Teaching is a great skill, but requires work. A long navex for the mutual would be very poor use of the time.