How Should I Know That my Student is Ready for His First Solo???
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How Should I Know That my Student is Ready for His First Solo???
Hello Everybody.
I am an F-16 pilot of the Hellenic Air Force and for the
last year i have been attending the excellent course for MSc in Human Factors and Safety Assessment in Aeronautics at Cranfield University.I found this site by accident while i was Googling and i own to say that i was impressed by the variety, quality and professionalism of the opinions that are posted here. I started visiting that quite often and now i decided to make my first post since i need the opinions of experienced flying instructors and examiners.
Now i am in the process of doing my thesis and
i decided to make a research to explore the not so well known field of decision making process of the flying instructors in order to allow or not student pilots to make their first solo flight.
I am an experienced flying instructor myself also but since i come from the Air Force, what i know is, i would dare to say, completely different in terms of procedures, rules and standards in accordance with General Aviation.
Besides, my project is specifically for G A and so i am going to gather information from G A pilots in order to build a picture of what aspects of student's performance cause instructors to allow them or prevent them from going their first solo.
I have to say that i have already scheduled interviews with flight instructors in my area (Cranfield) but since i have limited time and budget i decided to open that thread here also and use the experience and knowledge of all of you out there.
Thanks in advance every single person that will contribute to that discussion....
I am an F-16 pilot of the Hellenic Air Force and for the
last year i have been attending the excellent course for MSc in Human Factors and Safety Assessment in Aeronautics at Cranfield University.I found this site by accident while i was Googling and i own to say that i was impressed by the variety, quality and professionalism of the opinions that are posted here. I started visiting that quite often and now i decided to make my first post since i need the opinions of experienced flying instructors and examiners.
Now i am in the process of doing my thesis and
i decided to make a research to explore the not so well known field of decision making process of the flying instructors in order to allow or not student pilots to make their first solo flight.
I am an experienced flying instructor myself also but since i come from the Air Force, what i know is, i would dare to say, completely different in terms of procedures, rules and standards in accordance with General Aviation.
Besides, my project is specifically for G A and so i am going to gather information from G A pilots in order to build a picture of what aspects of student's performance cause instructors to allow them or prevent them from going their first solo.
I have to say that i have already scheduled interviews with flight instructors in my area (Cranfield) but since i have limited time and budget i decided to open that thread here also and use the experience and knowledge of all of you out there.
Thanks in advance every single person that will contribute to that discussion....
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Zyg I really don't think there is a set performance level.
When you send your first one solo they are proberly over trained and could have gone solo sooner.
After you get a bit of experence under your belt it is mostly gut feel.
The standard which we always put in the student records is
"3 satis circuits, ready for solo, ex 14 performed reported satis"
You know deep down when someone isn't ready, you also know deep down when someone is ready. The problem occurs with the ones in the minddle that you know that sending them solo will boost thier confidence and get them over a step but they just arn't progressing. In these cases its the right wx, the right time, the right controller in the tower, the right runway in use, even the right airframe that you are using that day. You take a calculated risk and send them on there merry way.
Intially you agonise over sending them. with experence it doesn't take 2 seconds to decide. If it takes more than that you shouldn't be sending them.
When you send your first one solo they are proberly over trained and could have gone solo sooner.
After you get a bit of experence under your belt it is mostly gut feel.
The standard which we always put in the student records is
"3 satis circuits, ready for solo, ex 14 performed reported satis"
You know deep down when someone isn't ready, you also know deep down when someone is ready. The problem occurs with the ones in the minddle that you know that sending them solo will boost thier confidence and get them over a step but they just arn't progressing. In these cases its the right wx, the right time, the right controller in the tower, the right runway in use, even the right airframe that you are using that day. You take a calculated risk and send them on there merry way.
Intially you agonise over sending them. with experence it doesn't take 2 seconds to decide. If it takes more than that you shouldn't be sending them.
Fess up!
Zyg + mad_jock: Interesting thoughts! Thank you for bringing them up!
I come from the glider/motorglider/SEP side of the spectrum. But I think it all amounts to the same: Quantifying a gut feeling. Which is per se difficult if not impossible, to say the least.
Take a look at when it goes wrong, for instance.
I had a student pilot prang a glider on his fifteenth solo (IIRC), third landing on this day.
up landing, some damage to the nose wheel incl fuselage structure. No bodily harm to him, repairable damage to the ASK21. ("The biggest damage was to the ego of the pilot.", as they say.)
Was he ready to solo? Yes, three days before that day, when had had his first solo, and on that day too.
Would I solo him in the same situation again? Yes.
Did he up? Yes.
Did I up? Answers on a postcard...
I come from the glider/motorglider/SEP side of the spectrum. But I think it all amounts to the same: Quantifying a gut feeling. Which is per se difficult if not impossible, to say the least.
Take a look at when it goes wrong, for instance.
I had a student pilot prang a glider on his fifteenth solo (IIRC), third landing on this day.
up landing, some damage to the nose wheel incl fuselage structure. No bodily harm to him, repairable damage to the ASK21. ("The biggest damage was to the ego of the pilot.", as they say.) Was he ready to solo? Yes, three days before that day, when had had his first solo, and on that day too.
Would I solo him in the same situation again? Yes.
Did he
up? Yes. Did I
up? Answers on a postcard...
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While you may feel that your military background means you have been following different procedures and standards to civil flying I would not make the same assumptions.
Civil training or should I say - Good Quality civil training will have very well defined standards for every stage of the PPL course (as well as all others). If you can not obtain a copy of a good training manual from such an organisation then I recomend that you research the AOPA publications that provide generic aspects of the course and a basis for a good document.
The first solo is the first time the student becomes the pilot in command and has sole responsibility for the safe execution of the flight as briefed. Once they taxi out, they are pilot in command and have sole responsibility for the safety of themsleves and their aircraft and anything they do is 100% their responsibility.
Training towards this starts on day 1 exercise 1 and is a gradual laid down and recorded process. The student records will contain reports of progress and if necessary lack of progress and certify that key standards have been acheived for each lesson leading up to first solo.
Therefore the decision to send the student solo is not one that is made as a snap decision or based on as some people say 3 good circuits. Such decisions are risky and can often be based on a temporary good period of operation that may not continue into the solo phase. They are also difficult to supervise and document adequately not to mention causing problems when restricted FI's provide the training prior to first solo.
Having demonstrated the required standard on all the relevant exercises from the sylabus, the instructor will determine that the student has reached the required standard for solo. This is the time at which the student can progress to exercise 14 - the first element of which is a dual check prior to the first solo. However, before they do, most organisations will have some form of certificate or checklist that both the student and the instructor signs to show that they both agree everything required to be done has been done.
Therefore, the standard required is in simple terms is to have satisfied the instructor(s) that if authorised in suitable conditions the student is capable of safely acting as pilot in command of the aircraft including being capable of coping with any unexpected emergency (eg engine failure) that may occur while they are pilot in command.
So we end up sitting next to a student that is recomended for first solo. perhaps this was done by yourself or perhaps it was another FI - perhaps a restricted FI. However, provided that everything has been completed correctly this student should be capable of repeating the previously demonstrated standard which put them in this situation.
You have read the record, you know the conditions are suitable so you complete the pre-solo check. Now this may be 3 or 4 circuits because at this stage you are simply confirming that the previous standard is being consistently maintained. If it is - they go solo.
Therefore I hope that I have described a standardised gradual process that reaches a point where the student has demonstrated the required standards of both knowledge and skill and the next element which is a further confirmation immediately prior to the solo exercise.
I recomend that you also talk to some experienced instructors from the UK Microlighting training organisations. Their sylabus leaves solo until the very end rather than the JAR sylabus which places it somewhere in the middle. You may get some intersting comments regarding the balancing of giving a boost in confidence to making sure they really can be PIC before going solo.
---------
Were you PIC at the time? No. So provided you reasonable assessed the conditions as suitable and briefed correctly, the pilot in command of the aircraft at the time was 100% responsible. Students seem to loose sight of this - they are PIC and they are 100% responsible for everything that a PIC can be held responsible for - notams, weather, not breaking the aeroplane!! Insurance!!!!!!
Civil training or should I say - Good Quality civil training will have very well defined standards for every stage of the PPL course (as well as all others). If you can not obtain a copy of a good training manual from such an organisation then I recomend that you research the AOPA publications that provide generic aspects of the course and a basis for a good document.
The first solo is the first time the student becomes the pilot in command and has sole responsibility for the safe execution of the flight as briefed. Once they taxi out, they are pilot in command and have sole responsibility for the safety of themsleves and their aircraft and anything they do is 100% their responsibility.
Training towards this starts on day 1 exercise 1 and is a gradual laid down and recorded process. The student records will contain reports of progress and if necessary lack of progress and certify that key standards have been acheived for each lesson leading up to first solo.
Therefore the decision to send the student solo is not one that is made as a snap decision or based on as some people say 3 good circuits. Such decisions are risky and can often be based on a temporary good period of operation that may not continue into the solo phase. They are also difficult to supervise and document adequately not to mention causing problems when restricted FI's provide the training prior to first solo.
Having demonstrated the required standard on all the relevant exercises from the sylabus, the instructor will determine that the student has reached the required standard for solo. This is the time at which the student can progress to exercise 14 - the first element of which is a dual check prior to the first solo. However, before they do, most organisations will have some form of certificate or checklist that both the student and the instructor signs to show that they both agree everything required to be done has been done.
Therefore, the standard required is in simple terms is to have satisfied the instructor(s) that if authorised in suitable conditions the student is capable of safely acting as pilot in command of the aircraft including being capable of coping with any unexpected emergency (eg engine failure) that may occur while they are pilot in command.
So we end up sitting next to a student that is recomended for first solo. perhaps this was done by yourself or perhaps it was another FI - perhaps a restricted FI. However, provided that everything has been completed correctly this student should be capable of repeating the previously demonstrated standard which put them in this situation.
You have read the record, you know the conditions are suitable so you complete the pre-solo check. Now this may be 3 or 4 circuits because at this stage you are simply confirming that the previous standard is being consistently maintained. If it is - they go solo.
Therefore I hope that I have described a standardised gradual process that reaches a point where the student has demonstrated the required standards of both knowledge and skill and the next element which is a further confirmation immediately prior to the solo exercise.
I recomend that you also talk to some experienced instructors from the UK Microlighting training organisations. Their sylabus leaves solo until the very end rather than the JAR sylabus which places it somewhere in the middle. You may get some intersting comments regarding the balancing of giving a boost in confidence to making sure they really can be PIC before going solo.
---------
Did I up?
up?
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First Solo
If we are talking about " The First Solo Flight", in the good old days, the instructor, when he decided that the time was right, would tell the student that it was to be the first solo circuit, then would get out of the aircraft on the Aerodrome and watch the Student's circuit and landing. About the final word to the Student was not to forget to pick up the instructor after his first solo landing, as it was often a long walk back to the flight office!
Tmb
Tmb
Zyg
The "gut feeling" is a way of describing judgment and experience accumulated over a period of time. DFC has indicated that its is the culmination of a period of preparation to ensure that the student has completed all the necessary items that will give him a good chance of safely completing his first flight as PIC and be able to cope with any basic emergencies should they occur.
First solo is a very important psychological step for a student that confirms in their own mind that they have been able to achieve the solo (safe) standard. Quite often a student will regress after first solo and it may take a while before they get back to being able to do it again.
It is interesting that in the Microlight world and in FAA training, less emphasis is placed on the time to first solo. In the main I would say that typically 13 - 15 hours represents a good average, many take considerably more. I recall training one student who had completed 30 hours training on a FAA course, he was at the navigation stage and had never flown solo. On RAF sponsored Flying Scholarships ( Military sponsored Civil Training) they required the student to solo in the 9th hour of training. In many cases this was pushing the instructors out of their comfort zone and sending students off prematurely. This was born out by a higher level of landing incidents usually involving the nosewheel on subsequent solo flights. As a full instructor I recall authorising 10 first solos in 2 days, 7 were trained by Assistant Instructors who were not allowed to authorise first solo, so they had to fly the 8th hour with a full FI. Interestingly, it was immediately apparent who had taught each student as they mimicked their instructors habits, both good and bad. With a maximum of one hour to get each students solo after they had been trained by someone else was quite a challenge and highlights a number of other factors. In the main you are looking for 3 consecutive, consistently safe circuits. If the student is practicing for an hour, tiredness becomes a factor and performance deteriorates therefore, after 45- 50 minutes if they haven't made the grade give up. It is better that they start afresh and go solo after 30-40 minutes of dual training when their performance is optimum. It is also important for the instructor to send the student off without giving them too long to think about it. Ideally land, jump out and send them off. If you ask a student, are they ready or would they like to go solo, they may hesitate or say no, and you have lost the opportunity.
There is a growing trend for instructors to enter the circuit too soon, skimming through the basic exercises and then spending too long in the circuit; often the students ability to fly attitudes is poor, lookout is often non existent and the time to solo increases. This is probably the result of poor instructor training, where not enough emphasis has been placed on the basics. The instructor then sees first solo as his initial target and believes that teaching in the circuit will achieve this.
The "gut feeling" is a way of describing judgment and experience accumulated over a period of time. DFC has indicated that its is the culmination of a period of preparation to ensure that the student has completed all the necessary items that will give him a good chance of safely completing his first flight as PIC and be able to cope with any basic emergencies should they occur.
First solo is a very important psychological step for a student that confirms in their own mind that they have been able to achieve the solo (safe) standard. Quite often a student will regress after first solo and it may take a while before they get back to being able to do it again.
It is interesting that in the Microlight world and in FAA training, less emphasis is placed on the time to first solo. In the main I would say that typically 13 - 15 hours represents a good average, many take considerably more. I recall training one student who had completed 30 hours training on a FAA course, he was at the navigation stage and had never flown solo. On RAF sponsored Flying Scholarships ( Military sponsored Civil Training) they required the student to solo in the 9th hour of training. In many cases this was pushing the instructors out of their comfort zone and sending students off prematurely. This was born out by a higher level of landing incidents usually involving the nosewheel on subsequent solo flights. As a full instructor I recall authorising 10 first solos in 2 days, 7 were trained by Assistant Instructors who were not allowed to authorise first solo, so they had to fly the 8th hour with a full FI. Interestingly, it was immediately apparent who had taught each student as they mimicked their instructors habits, both good and bad. With a maximum of one hour to get each students solo after they had been trained by someone else was quite a challenge and highlights a number of other factors. In the main you are looking for 3 consecutive, consistently safe circuits. If the student is practicing for an hour, tiredness becomes a factor and performance deteriorates therefore, after 45- 50 minutes if they haven't made the grade give up. It is better that they start afresh and go solo after 30-40 minutes of dual training when their performance is optimum. It is also important for the instructor to send the student off without giving them too long to think about it. Ideally land, jump out and send them off. If you ask a student, are they ready or would they like to go solo, they may hesitate or say no, and you have lost the opportunity.
There is a growing trend for instructors to enter the circuit too soon, skimming through the basic exercises and then spending too long in the circuit; often the students ability to fly attitudes is poor, lookout is often non existent and the time to solo increases. This is probably the result of poor instructor training, where not enough emphasis has been placed on the basics. The instructor then sees first solo as his initial target and believes that teaching in the circuit will achieve this.
Last edited by Whopity; 3rd Jun 2010 at 08:45.
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My criteria used to be................would I be happy to let my mum stay on board with this guy as he flew his first solo (not literally obviously) combined with a lot of the good stuff from above.
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There is a growing trend for instructors to enter the circuit too soon, skimming through the basic exercises and then spending too long in the circuit; often the students ability to fly attitudes is poor, lookout is often non existent and the time to solo increases. This is probably the result of poor instructor training, where not enough emphasis has been placed on the basics. The instructor then sees first solo as his initial target and believes that teaching in the circuit will achieve this.
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That is the biggest problem in flight training. Whenever I have seen a student training record where the initial exercises have been rushed and they've just been dumped into the circuit, then you know there is going to be trouble.
The circuit is not the place for teaching people how to climb, descend, fly straight and level or change configuration. All of that should be second nature and ex 12,13 should be simply a formality explaining how to put them all together.
As for when is the right time to send someone first solo, firstly, it's a gut feeling as mentioned already. You know when someone is coming up to it.
Secondly shut your mouth and don't tell them that it's coming up! All that happens is they start to focus on the impending solo session and take their eye off the flying.
Thirdly, I make sure they have seen every kind of circuit and know how to deal with people who might try and push them around a bit. If they can then fly 3 circuits without me saying a single word, then I get out and wish them well.
As already mentioned, to start with, you'll massively over-train them and they'll have been ready for a while before you send them off the first time. There's no harm done and it doesn't matter to their training as a whole as you'll be wanting them to get better anyway and so the polishing has just happened before rather than after their first solo.
It is a nerve wracking experience to start with and I think I will always get some butterflies sending someone off for the first time. However, it is one of my favourite things in flight instruction, better to me than the day they actually get their licence to be honest.
The circuit is not the place for teaching people how to climb, descend, fly straight and level or change configuration. All of that should be second nature and ex 12,13 should be simply a formality explaining how to put them all together.
As for when is the right time to send someone first solo, firstly, it's a gut feeling as mentioned already. You know when someone is coming up to it.
Secondly shut your mouth and don't tell them that it's coming up! All that happens is they start to focus on the impending solo session and take their eye off the flying.
Thirdly, I make sure they have seen every kind of circuit and know how to deal with people who might try and push them around a bit. If they can then fly 3 circuits without me saying a single word, then I get out and wish them well.
As already mentioned, to start with, you'll massively over-train them and they'll have been ready for a while before you send them off the first time. There's no harm done and it doesn't matter to their training as a whole as you'll be wanting them to get better anyway and so the polishing has just happened before rather than after their first solo.
It is a nerve wracking experience to start with and I think I will always get some butterflies sending someone off for the first time. However, it is one of my favourite things in flight instruction, better to me than the day they actually get their licence to be honest.
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So, what I perceive from your replies is that the decision for sending someone to his first solo is mainly based on that “gut” feeling…
This is absolutely true and acceptable but…
what would you say to a young instructor that still does not have that feeling and intuition ? ?
Has someone of you formed certain criteria that are objective??
Personally, I would like to explore it deeper and look for things like..
“ in flight attention, handling and control, early decision for go around and safe execution, airspeed control, stable approach, R/T and so many other aspects that I believe play a decisive role .
Can anyone recall from his recent experience some particular issues ( actions or inactions like those I mentioned before or something different ), that influenced his decision to allow or disallow student’s first solo ?
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what would you say to a young instructor that still does not have that feeling and intuition
They have to send 20 none first time solo's off before they can get de-restricted.
To be honest the new instructors are that causious about sending students solo you have to prompt them that actually it is ok. You get them to train a student up to the point they think they are ready for solo and see what the student is like. If they are up to standard or better than required you send them solo and leave the restricted instructor to continue developing. I have never had a student who the new instructor thought was good for solo to be below standard. They have always been an easy yep you good to go.
I suppose you could draw up a tick list but I will bet that all the experenced instructors on this thread will have had a student who could tick every box on your list but we still didn't send them solo because it didn't feel right.
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One of the key things is the student's decision making ability - just before solo you want to see them recognise mistakes and errors on their own and then sensibly correct them. This is why it is so important for instructors to shut up when getting close to sending first solo; those instructors that are constantly 'coaching' their student in the air do their student a big disservice.
I also pay good attention to the student's RT as well - it is normally a really good indication of what capacity the student is operating at. Good, fluent RT with good responses to ATC shows a student who has things under control. Students who are very flustered on the RT and starting to miss ATC calls are normally at max capacity and only just coping.
I also pay good attention to the student's RT as well - it is normally a really good indication of what capacity the student is operating at. Good, fluent RT with good responses to ATC shows a student who has things under control. Students who are very flustered on the RT and starting to miss ATC calls are normally at max capacity and only just coping.
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MJ - I think you will find it is 25, not 20. 
In my limited experience, the first solo isn't the most dangerous. As already hinted, many students are quite capable of solo some significant time before the moment they are actually sent off. For me, the more dangerous period is the first few hours of solo flight after first solo; namely 3-6th solos and the early cross county trips. At this point the student pilot is gaining in confidence, may already be applying slightly lower standards and the instructor may be more relaxed.
I have never had a student do something noticeably wrong on their first solo - I wish I could say the same about those who are circuit bashing on their subsequent solos.
In my limited experience, the first solo isn't the most dangerous. As already hinted, many students are quite capable of solo some significant time before the moment they are actually sent off. For me, the more dangerous period is the first few hours of solo flight after first solo; namely 3-6th solos and the early cross county trips. At this point the student pilot is gaining in confidence, may already be applying slightly lower standards and the instructor may be more relaxed.
I have never had a student do something noticeably wrong on their first solo - I wish I could say the same about those who are circuit bashing on their subsequent solos.
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This is absolutely true and acceptable but…
DFC, yet again, is the only instructor, so far, to appear like a professional instructor I would like to employ or work with.
And Whopity too!
Last edited by Pull what; 6th Jun 2010 at 14:24.
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Righto, since you've made some snap judgement based on a few comments, would you like to expand on them, so that I can call you a tw*t properly and rip apart whatever nonsense it is that you are blathering on about.
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When I did primary instruction full time this is how I did it..
Usualy around 15 to 20 hours the student has demonstrated HIS/HER ability to fix airspeed, pending stalls, botched landings, with out my help...that's key...so when it came time to consider the person to solo..I did 3 supervised solos..
The first one usualy comprised of my flying with the student for about an hour or so...turns, climbs, descents, holding airspeeds and alts, bascialy do this and that, and the student does, and fixes his own problems, then slow flight then stall recoveries...if all goes well, everyone feeling good, we do like ten landings...finding a runway with no wind, plenty long, no traffic, and I sit back and have the student do his thing with very little imput, seeing if the student can handle it on his own...ten landings later the student, should feel pretty good that all he has to do is replicate three landings on his own, having just done ten landings of the same...
I get out, I watch, and the student does two touch and goes, the last one a full stop..he picks me up...now he feels like a pilot..he flies me home...
As far as when to get out of the plane for the first time...sometimes an instructor has to guage the confidence level of the student...as they have already demonstrated flying/landing the plane so much with you, this is simply about doing it themselves...so you need to give them the chance to do that when you fly with them...don't be grabbby and always talk them through it..too many instructors barely ahead of thier students, don't have the confidence to let thier students actualy fly....
2000 hours of instruction I only had one student almost blow it...simply put, 22-30-40 hours later, he was very proficient, but lacked any confidence and almost busted up the plane...it was all psychological..once I was out of the plane, he just didn't think anything he did was him....my mistake was doing one of those 'ok it's like 40 hours, time for me to get out'...kind of like throwing your kid in the lake when all else failed to teach him how to swim...the fact is...that rarely works...if you have done everything you can to demonstrate they have confidence in the plane, and they just can't do it...then your in the area of how they were brought up..being thier psychologist basicaly, and not thier flight instructor...all that said, I had plenty of students other's gave up on, especialy older peeps wanting to fly...it's fun and challenging finding ways to get people over learning plateus, psychological demons, etc...
Anyway, you do three of these supervised solos, picking days where you have a little more wind, some more traffic in the pattern, where they demonstrate fixing thier own problems, building confidence....and if they they show themselves feeling good, being solid, no issues, then you restrict them to come out on thier own on nice days, little wind and work up from there...
In the mean time your still flying with them a few times a week, and they are giving you feedback on thier solo flights...critiques, thoughts, feelings ect...
Most of my students were done by about 60 hours...
Usualy around 15 to 20 hours the student has demonstrated HIS/HER ability to fix airspeed, pending stalls, botched landings, with out my help...that's key...so when it came time to consider the person to solo..I did 3 supervised solos..
The first one usualy comprised of my flying with the student for about an hour or so...turns, climbs, descents, holding airspeeds and alts, bascialy do this and that, and the student does, and fixes his own problems, then slow flight then stall recoveries...if all goes well, everyone feeling good, we do like ten landings...finding a runway with no wind, plenty long, no traffic, and I sit back and have the student do his thing with very little imput, seeing if the student can handle it on his own...ten landings later the student, should feel pretty good that all he has to do is replicate three landings on his own, having just done ten landings of the same...
I get out, I watch, and the student does two touch and goes, the last one a full stop..he picks me up...now he feels like a pilot..he flies me home...
As far as when to get out of the plane for the first time...sometimes an instructor has to guage the confidence level of the student...as they have already demonstrated flying/landing the plane so much with you, this is simply about doing it themselves...so you need to give them the chance to do that when you fly with them...don't be grabbby and always talk them through it..too many instructors barely ahead of thier students, don't have the confidence to let thier students actualy fly....
2000 hours of instruction I only had one student almost blow it...simply put, 22-30-40 hours later, he was very proficient, but lacked any confidence and almost busted up the plane...it was all psychological..once I was out of the plane, he just didn't think anything he did was him....my mistake was doing one of those 'ok it's like 40 hours, time for me to get out'...kind of like throwing your kid in the lake when all else failed to teach him how to swim...the fact is...that rarely works...if you have done everything you can to demonstrate they have confidence in the plane, and they just can't do it...then your in the area of how they were brought up..being thier psychologist basicaly, and not thier flight instructor...all that said, I had plenty of students other's gave up on, especialy older peeps wanting to fly...it's fun and challenging finding ways to get people over learning plateus, psychological demons, etc...
Anyway, you do three of these supervised solos, picking days where you have a little more wind, some more traffic in the pattern, where they demonstrate fixing thier own problems, building confidence....and if they they show themselves feeling good, being solid, no issues, then you restrict them to come out on thier own on nice days, little wind and work up from there...
In the mean time your still flying with them a few times a week, and they are giving you feedback on thier solo flights...critiques, thoughts, feelings ect...
Most of my students were done by about 60 hours...
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Righto, since you've made some snap judgement based on a few comments, would you like to expand on them, so that I can call you a tw*t properly and rip apart whatever nonsense it is that you are blathering on about.
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Ahh good. Arrogance and an inability to answer a question. You feel willing and able to insult people, but when challenged back you decide not to participate.
It's exactly people like you, with no backbone, that have caused our industry to become the mess that it is today. Are you willing to stand by your silly statement or like many other FI's do you not really care enough to stick around and actually have a debate without resorting to flip perjorative statements about "how accidents occur."
You might have a different opinion and that is fine, but to accuse others of unsafe practice without qualifying those remarks is idiotic.
Why is "gut feeling" and experience unimportant? Why not share the benefit of your obvious wisdom...
The ball's in your court skippy. Let's see what you've got.
It's exactly people like you, with no backbone, that have caused our industry to become the mess that it is today. Are you willing to stand by your silly statement or like many other FI's do you not really care enough to stick around and actually have a debate without resorting to flip perjorative statements about "how accidents occur."
You might have a different opinion and that is fine, but to accuse others of unsafe practice without qualifying those remarks is idiotic.
Why is "gut feeling" and experience unimportant? Why not share the benefit of your obvious wisdom...
The ball's in your court skippy. Let's see what you've got.