Sim Session - How long captain in "hot seat"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: www
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sim Session - How long captain in "hot seat"
Not sure if this is correct forum but have a question for sim instructors re training at major airlines.
Normally a simulator session is 4 hours in duration: 2 hours for Capt and 2 hours for FO, but often the Capt is up first and his time under scrutiny is longer. Question is, if no problems occur, how long without break would you have capt "under test" during the 4 hour session i.e. would you go to 2.5hrs with capt, 3.0hrs or say 3.5 hours without physiological break before relenting to allow FO his/her training? Are there any guidelines for this or is a sim instructor within his rights to have only capt flying for entire 4 hours? Many thanks for your replies.
Normally a simulator session is 4 hours in duration: 2 hours for Capt and 2 hours for FO, but often the Capt is up first and his time under scrutiny is longer. Question is, if no problems occur, how long without break would you have capt "under test" during the 4 hour session i.e. would you go to 2.5hrs with capt, 3.0hrs or say 3.5 hours without physiological break before relenting to allow FO his/her training? Are there any guidelines for this or is a sim instructor within his rights to have only capt flying for entire 4 hours? Many thanks for your replies.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The answer to your question is not that easy to answer.
Most crews are limited by the four hour session itself. Usually a 142, or 121 cirriculum will have an approved syllabus and the candidates are trained to that syllabus. This governs what is delivered in that four hour session.
To split a 4 hour session into two equal parts isn't realistic. Usually, the first half hour is taken up by cockpit preparation, etc., before you get down to business. Many of the tasks are shared between CA and FO. As for the actual hands and feet aspect of handling the aircraft, they are about equal.
A considerate sim instructor will usually take a 15-20 minute break in the middle. Plus or minus.
We're all individuals, including the type rating sim instructor. It depends on how he or she was broken into the instructing role.
By the way, when you are doing a type rating, (learning) it is not (should not) be a test. The testing occurs on the final type rating check ride. Instructors teach (or should teach) during a training session. If they aren't then they aren't doing their job.
Responsibly, the crew should enter the sim NOT needing a comfort break or about to need a comfort break. It's called pre-planning. However, if I had a student who really needed a whiz, I'd go off motion out of courtesy to accomodate the student. It's part of the facilitation IMHO.
I hope this helps?
Willie
Most crews are limited by the four hour session itself. Usually a 142, or 121 cirriculum will have an approved syllabus and the candidates are trained to that syllabus. This governs what is delivered in that four hour session.
To split a 4 hour session into two equal parts isn't realistic. Usually, the first half hour is taken up by cockpit preparation, etc., before you get down to business. Many of the tasks are shared between CA and FO. As for the actual hands and feet aspect of handling the aircraft, they are about equal.
A considerate sim instructor will usually take a 15-20 minute break in the middle. Plus or minus.
We're all individuals, including the type rating sim instructor. It depends on how he or she was broken into the instructing role.
By the way, when you are doing a type rating, (learning) it is not (should not) be a test. The testing occurs on the final type rating check ride. Instructors teach (or should teach) during a training session. If they aren't then they aren't doing their job.
Responsibly, the crew should enter the sim NOT needing a comfort break or about to need a comfort break. It's called pre-planning. However, if I had a student who really needed a whiz, I'd go off motion out of courtesy to accomodate the student. It's part of the facilitation IMHO.
I hope this helps?
Willie
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct to say that most training sessions allow for something like 1 hour brief / pre-flight prep, 4 hours simulator "access" and 1 hour post flight / de-brief.
However, you are incorrect to describe the simulator time as being part for the Captain and part for the Co-pilot (whatever their rank).
The sessions are normally in a general way split in 2;
For the first part, one pilot will be pilot flying and their colleague will be pilot non-flying / pilot monitoring (whichever way your company describes it).
At the end of this time, there is usually a small comfort break and then the second part starts with the PF / PNF roles reversed.
In most cases, there will be times during which say the PIC is PF but may transfer control to PNF so that they can correctly diagnose a problem and complete some checklists, deal with company / cabin crew etc etc etc.
Similarly, when the SIC is PF, there will be times when either they had control to the PIC or when the PIC takes control so that the SIC can run checklists, talk to the cabin etc etc etc etc etc etc.
Therefore overall, it is a team operation and just like during a normal flight I would expect that the PF would be concentrating on the aircraft trajectory etc and would not for example try to give a briefing on the arrival, approach and taxi-in without first giving control to the other pilot or they would ask the other pilot to set the navaids etc etc - i.e. good CRM
As I hope you can see now, if for example the Captain is PF and there is an engine fire above V1, yes they will be flying the aircraft however, I am sure there are lots of things that you as PNF / PM are required to do. Therefore it is not possible for you to practice these things unless you are not PF.
Good instructors will give a session that runs logically and will give both pilots the opportunity to practice in PF and PNF roles.
However, much of what is done will be down to how you company requires certain situations to be handled.
So therefore perhaps you should think of it less as "the captain gets more stick time than me" and more of "did I get suficient training appropriate to my role in the team?"
However, you are incorrect to describe the simulator time as being part for the Captain and part for the Co-pilot (whatever their rank).
The sessions are normally in a general way split in 2;
For the first part, one pilot will be pilot flying and their colleague will be pilot non-flying / pilot monitoring (whichever way your company describes it).
At the end of this time, there is usually a small comfort break and then the second part starts with the PF / PNF roles reversed.
In most cases, there will be times during which say the PIC is PF but may transfer control to PNF so that they can correctly diagnose a problem and complete some checklists, deal with company / cabin crew etc etc etc.
Similarly, when the SIC is PF, there will be times when either they had control to the PIC or when the PIC takes control so that the SIC can run checklists, talk to the cabin etc etc etc etc etc etc.
Therefore overall, it is a team operation and just like during a normal flight I would expect that the PF would be concentrating on the aircraft trajectory etc and would not for example try to give a briefing on the arrival, approach and taxi-in without first giving control to the other pilot or they would ask the other pilot to set the navaids etc etc - i.e. good CRM
As I hope you can see now, if for example the Captain is PF and there is an engine fire above V1, yes they will be flying the aircraft however, I am sure there are lots of things that you as PNF / PM are required to do. Therefore it is not possible for you to practice these things unless you are not PF.
Good instructors will give a session that runs logically and will give both pilots the opportunity to practice in PF and PNF roles.
However, much of what is done will be down to how you company requires certain situations to be handled.
So therefore perhaps you should think of it less as "the captain gets more stick time than me" and more of "did I get suficient training appropriate to my role in the team?"
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 858
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If a captain fails a section or does not complete a section very well he may need to spend the FO's section (2 hours) revisiting the exercise. The FO may need to come back another day. Also applies to the FO as well of course
