Instructors who are Line Pilots
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Cirrus, are you implying that the only professional pilots are those that fly airlines? 
Personally I instruct alongside some 'professional' pilots who are, at best, average instructors. 
Turning to the discussion, as a professional (full time) instructor, I would agree with a previous post that a day or so of full-on instruction is by no means relaxing.
Personally I instruct alongside some 'professional' pilots who are, at best, average instructors. Turning to the discussion, as a professional (full time) instructor, I would agree with a previous post that a day or so of full-on instruction is by no means relaxing.
Seems to me that there is a need to tidy up what is accountable flying. The Hong Kong ANO defines it as flying in any aircraft with an MTOW greater that 1600kgs, or in any aircraft engaged in public transport or aerial work.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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In this already over regulated world, I feel I am quite capable of balancing a little instructing on my days off with the airline job.
I certainly dont need the CAA to impose any form of regime on me in this way.
Driving on the M25 on the way to work is fairly tedious and can be tiring. The blissful hour I spent the previous afternoon in the front of a Tiger Moth a distant memory.
We are all adults and professionals at that.
Leave well alone I say and let the CAA have focus groups on issues that really matter.
I certainly dont need the CAA to impose any form of regime on me in this way.
Driving on the M25 on the way to work is fairly tedious and can be tiring. The blissful hour I spent the previous afternoon in the front of a Tiger Moth a distant memory.
We are all adults and professionals at that.
Leave well alone I say and let the CAA have focus groups on issues that really matter.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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If you want a sausage factory and to turn training into a box ticking exercise then get rid of current line pilots. Personally I would hunt out the real pilots during my training and pick their brains. The knowledge of the industry and what it was like to really fly on the line was invaluable. I got loads of tips on my CV and job interviewing that put me in good stead.
I would steer clear of the flying club 400hr instructor heros that would take great delight in telling you in minute detail how the industry worked yet had never flown in either seat of a MPA despite showing off their shiny 4 stripes. It would be a real shame if the current line pilots are lost.
I would steer clear of the flying club 400hr instructor heros that would take great delight in telling you in minute detail how the industry worked yet had never flown in either seat of a MPA despite showing off their shiny 4 stripes. It would be a real shame if the current line pilots are lost.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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potkettle, I think it is right to have a balance. Line pilots are really good for procedures, IFR/ATC and flight planning type stuff - as you say they are also a good insight into the industry. Conversely, chaps who get 400+hrs a year doing exercises 4-13 in a 172/152/PA28 are probably the best type of person to learn basic handling skills from. Ideally, I would suggest that a student PPL wants exposure to both types of instructor throughout their PPL training.
Where that leaves the 400hr (or far less) wannabe with an FI rating............
Where that leaves the 400hr (or far less) wannabe with an FI rating............
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FOK, I am different in that I wouldn't contemplate 6 hours instruction plus 3 hours driving on my day off - but then neither, I suspect, would you. Which is why it's a fatuous argument, or as I prefer to put it, ****e. Without wishing to sound insulting, if hand flying tires you out I am guessing you used to be (or still are) a long haul pilot; it doesn't tire you out if you are used to it, whether as an instructor or a regional airline pilot, it is fun and far more relaxing than many other activities that are not considered under FTL schemes.
The issue is whether an hour or two's instruction - as opposed to mountain climbing or marathon running - on a day off invalidates it, which is, I say again, bollocks. The fact that flying hours are a matter of record - and therefore easy for the investigators to ascertain - is probably the major factor behind their inclusion in the accident reports mentioned, not the real likelihood of any associated fatigue having been a causal factor. The Goodwood report includes the line 'The pilot's commercial flying commitments were not a contributory factor in the accident'; while he may have been knackered it was nothing to do with his airline flying. The Crossair report mentions many other far more significant factors than fatigue, like the ground they flew into wasn't marked on their charts for a start.
As I say, instructing on days off as as cause of fatigue is simply not an issue, and if the CAA are taking that view then they are bang on. As other posters have said it is far more likely to benefit the travelling public if their pilot has better hand flying skills than if his last hand flying was a landing last month just to keep him in the 90 day rule. Binks's post says it all.
The issue is whether an hour or two's instruction - as opposed to mountain climbing or marathon running - on a day off invalidates it, which is, I say again, bollocks. The fact that flying hours are a matter of record - and therefore easy for the investigators to ascertain - is probably the major factor behind their inclusion in the accident reports mentioned, not the real likelihood of any associated fatigue having been a causal factor. The Goodwood report includes the line 'The pilot's commercial flying commitments were not a contributory factor in the accident'; while he may have been knackered it was nothing to do with his airline flying. The Crossair report mentions many other far more significant factors than fatigue, like the ground they flew into wasn't marked on their charts for a start.
As I say, instructing on days off as as cause of fatigue is simply not an issue, and if the CAA are taking that view then they are bang on. As other posters have said it is far more likely to benefit the travelling public if their pilot has better hand flying skills than if his last hand flying was a landing last month just to keep him in the 90 day rule. Binks's post says it all.
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Hands up all those line pilots who hold instructor qualifications and will gladly enjoy the oportunity to do some training in the sim for their employer on their days off?
Stands back and waits for the "that is not recreation" or "what about my time off" or "That would be against FTL"
Of course recreational activities are for the most part unpaid.
If ther CAA say that instructional activities can be done on a day off without affecting duty days/times there are far more important issues at stake than the issue of giving a hours aerobatic instruction on the middle of 5 days off.
Stands back and waits for the "that is not recreation" or "what about my time off" or "That would be against FTL"
Of course recreational activities are for the most part unpaid.
If ther CAA say that instructional activities can be done on a day off without affecting duty days/times there are far more important issues at stake than the issue of giving a hours aerobatic instruction on the middle of 5 days off.
