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Taking someone in a/c while training

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Taking someone in a/c while training

Old 27th Mar 2009, 08:31
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Taking someone in a/c while training

Is it possible to take someone in the aircraft while am undergoing a dual session with the instructor?????

Say C172 has 4-seats, the two seats are going to be free, can some one take that place, just to be a mere spectator. Does law permits????
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 08:53
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The law does allow for this type of arrangement, as long as there is a qualified pilot occupying either the left or right seat if an instructor. I used to take people flying in the rear seat during my flight training as long as there was not a C of G issue. By this I mean that certain manoeuvres require the centre of gravity to be within a certain limit and putting someone in the back may make stall recovery from a fully developed stage, for example, more difficult on certain types!

If you get the opportunity to back seat during someone else's lesson go for it. You can pick up a lot of knowledge by observing from the back.

Tug
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 08:55
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It should be fine as long as the weight & balance/TODR works out. The only exercise where a passenger isn't allowed in the 172 is Spins.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 09:14
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Perhaps a good thing to practise a stall with an aft CG.

It's guaranteed to be recoverable (the 172 has a standard category C of A), but will perhaps be more "realistic" than the usual forward CG light weight training scenario.

Have fun,
O8
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 10:10
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http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1196/20071...PRCampaign.pdf

There is nothing in law to prevent the carriage of non-paying passengers on an instructional flight, apart, of course, from solo flights by a student pilot. If the only payment made is for carriage of the trainee pilot under instruction, the flight is classed as aerial work, and no AOC is needed.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 12:48
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Would any instructors have objections to someone backseating a lesson even if they had no desire to learn to fly themselves? Mates, partners, spouses being taken up for the crack of it sorta thing....

VFE.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 13:04
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I'm not sure what the going rate is for a PPL in the UK at the moment - but all those thousands of pounds make the pursuit a family thing - not an individual thing.

That cash could be a family holiday, a new kitchen, an extension to the house, the wide screen HD plasma - or even the mortgage.

I always actively encouraged family to go along, so that they got to share the experience and learn that (presumably) "Dad" is safe and reliable as a pilot.

I rarely carried untrained passengers (i.e. other students/pilots) on stalling flights - though always did an exercise of studying stalls and go-arounds at max available weight (the latter was great fun in a 172 with 40 flap).

It should be pointed out to the paying student, however, that any upset/delays/expenses caused by their "passenger" for whatever reason, will be their responsibility. Incomplete excercises would need to be reflown. Additional expenses would need to be paid.

Be careful of the prostitution of the lesson when a student asks if you can do a long cross country - and deliver his buddy to a business meeting for the day.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 14:13
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My instructor said when i was doing circuits i couldn't take my mum or dad because i needed to concentrate... but during the nav exercises he was more than happy to accomodate them. I suppose different instructors have different opinions
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 14:24
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Yes, I personally don't mind but have witnessed another instructor refuse which struck me as rather miserable of him but he took the instruction very seriously and didn't want to cater for the extra body in any way, needless to say that student never came back!

VFE.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 14:47
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Its the student's money. If they want to take someone in the back, and there is no operational issue then it should be allowed. The instructor could always tell the student if he thinks they will learn better without the audience, but leave it up to the student ultimately.
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 15:21
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Hello!

It may be different in various parts of the world, but where I live, the answer to this question is given in the operating license of the flying school. It is mainly a liability and insurance issue.

In our school, we are permitted to take along other students as passengers (and we encourage them to do so!), but we are not permitted to take "third-party" passengers. Occasionally, I have done it nonetheless, but on other occasions I have refused to take the passengers along. If something happens to them, I alone will be held liable and it will my house that will be taken away and it will be my familiy that has to live on the street, so it must be my decision alone.

Greetings, Max
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 18:49
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I invited a girl friend to ride in the back seat of a 172. It was a REALLY windy day and my instructor decided to work on cross wind landings. It was a lot of fun, but she got sick in the back seat and refused to ever fly with me again
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 20:40
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Well I can't really see the instructional value of your girlfriend having a ride on the rear seat, while your instructor was flying the aircraft in windy conditions, in any case you would not be able to count this as P1 or P1 u/s, as you were not handling the aircraft controls, but otherwise 'engaged' on the rear seat!
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 21:18
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The CAA did publish specific guidance on having pax in the back on a lesson. I do not have time to search for it at the moment but it was in an AIC or a bulletin or similar. I seem to remember that it was considered legal and the specific case mentioned was having family on board during a trial lesson, I thing the conclusion was that the CAA considered it OK and legal. However please search the CAA web site for the authoritative answer.

Regards

MM
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Old 30th Mar 2009, 00:56
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Here in Oz you can take a passenger basically if it is essential for a training flight, so taking another student on a nav is probably OK but your girlfriend is not (unless she is also training).

I have backseated during my training days and found it to be extremely useful - at least I can learn quite a few things which I would have been too busy to notice if I were piloting.
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Old 4th Apr 2009, 15:46
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Is it possible to take someone in the aircraft while am undergoing a dual session with the instructor?????
They have been doing it for years in the airlines
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