Language Proficiency at LPC
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Language Proficiency at LPC
Just had an interesting e mail from a PPL holder re CAA docs 1688 " ICAO language proficiency". Apparently the inclusion in section XIII of the licence does not imply a level 6 english proficiency and at some point we all have to have our english assessed as level 6 or lower. As FE/GR I'm sure many of us only used page 1 of form SRG\1119 to complete LPC renewals and revalidations etc. The english proficiency is on page 2 and I assumed it only applied to post course licences , as most PPL's already have an FRTOL.
The standards document indicates that assessment (level 6 )can be made by any FE or other examiners but doesn't include a revalidation by experience or by a GR . And yes, I realise this information is already a year old,March '08 but I would be interested to hear comments, especially if I have missed some vital CAA publication, apart of course from earlier , and valuable, pprune threads.
The standards document indicates that assessment (level 6 )can be made by any FE or other examiners but doesn't include a revalidation by experience or by a GR . And yes, I realise this information is already a year old,March '08 but I would be interested to hear comments, especially if I have missed some vital CAA publication, apart of course from earlier , and valuable, pprune threads.
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Talk the Talk
Just another example of beaurocratic stupidity!
The Caa have spent thousands of our pounds sending out new licenses to those licenced pilots who hold a computer generated licence. They appear not to have done so with regard to those who hold the earlier UK licence (non-computer generated) and which have never been updated.
However the CAA have stated in their document: ICAO Language Proficiency For Flight Crew, that The FRTOL practical test meets the formal requirements for the formal Language Proficiency assessment. RT Examiners are not trained to assess proficiency other than for those who are level 6. Therefore a FRTOL holder it would seem is already assessed as level 6. The CAA do not make clear in the document whether those FRTOL holders who never had to do a test for it to be issued or those who did the test prior to the certificate being added to the FRTOL application form are also assessed automatically as level 6.
Its all very silly. It is obvious that those born in the UK meet the level 6 and should have been dealt with appropiately.
It would also have been useful to have informed their own Examiners appointed by them of the situation and how they should deal with it from the start.
The Caa have spent thousands of our pounds sending out new licenses to those licenced pilots who hold a computer generated licence. They appear not to have done so with regard to those who hold the earlier UK licence (non-computer generated) and which have never been updated.
However the CAA have stated in their document: ICAO Language Proficiency For Flight Crew, that The FRTOL practical test meets the formal requirements for the formal Language Proficiency assessment. RT Examiners are not trained to assess proficiency other than for those who are level 6. Therefore a FRTOL holder it would seem is already assessed as level 6. The CAA do not make clear in the document whether those FRTOL holders who never had to do a test for it to be issued or those who did the test prior to the certificate being added to the FRTOL application form are also assessed automatically as level 6.
Its all very silly. It is obvious that those born in the UK meet the level 6 and should have been dealt with appropiately.
It would also have been useful to have informed their own Examiners appointed by them of the situation and how they should deal with it from the start.
Therefore a FRTOL holder it would seem is already assessed as level 6.
RTF Examiners started identifying Level 6 candidates several years ago so anyone who has completed a FRTOL test in the last 3 years should have been given a Level 6 or told to go and get an assessment.
The process is quite simple, any examiner, who as you say has not actually been informed by anyone, can sign off a Level 6 if its obvious the person is a natural English speaker. If there is any doubt about their English then they have to go and be assessed elsewhere. If someone comes to you for a revalidation, its obvious if they speak English so there is nothing wrong with signing them off.
Other States have the same problem reissuing licenses so its not just a UK thing.
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Couple of problems arise. As said above, Standards Doc. 1688 only allows FE. and other "flight" examiners to sign an individual as level 6, and only after a test. Most PPL holders revalidate via "experience" and often c/o a GR examiner. One keen guy on another forum has contacted the CAA about this, as I will, in person on Monday. One thing I can do is issue and sign a copy of SRG\1119, page 2, to all those I have tested recently.
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Nonsense talk
Whopity
I of course recognise your expertise on this but it is crass beaurocratic stupidity. How on earth can anybody take this seriously. From your answer it would seem that being born within the UK, whether Welsh or Gaelic speaking, that by the age of 17 years you will not have a grasp of the English language beyond level 4. It is an insult to common sense. I never thought the day would come that I would be challenged to prove that I could speak my own language. However poor a grasp in the classical sense I and others should be given credit of achieving Level 6, however beaurocratically defined.
There are few things left to be proud of being british but at the very least I can reasonably expect be credited to being able to speak my own language.
No doubt few will ever learn of the requirement and most will treat it with incredulous contempt.
I of course recognise your expertise on this but it is crass beaurocratic stupidity. How on earth can anybody take this seriously. From your answer it would seem that being born within the UK, whether Welsh or Gaelic speaking, that by the age of 17 years you will not have a grasp of the English language beyond level 4. It is an insult to common sense. I never thought the day would come that I would be challenged to prove that I could speak my own language. However poor a grasp in the classical sense I and others should be given credit of achieving Level 6, however beaurocratically defined.
There are few things left to be proud of being british but at the very least I can reasonably expect be credited to being able to speak my own language.
No doubt few will ever learn of the requirement and most will treat it with incredulous contempt.
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Well its all gone to cock already then because I don't know a single none native speaking pilot who has had a LPC in the last year who hasn't been signed off as level 6. Thats the only box that the TRE can tick which means the company doesn't loose the pilot out of the roster to go and get tested.
And that must be getting on for 15-20 of them.
It proberly not the CAA's fault it will be an ICAO rule that you have to be tested in some form. And this is the easiest way they could think of doing it. To be fair some of the PPL's I taught from rural scotland would not pass an ICAO level 6 in English a 4 would be a struggle. I could barely understand them after being brought up in a doric speaking enviroment. And there a few other heavy regional accents which can and do cause problems. The way I took the requirement it wasn't English as such that was being tested it was aviation english used for communication. You can speak a form of english perfectly but if your accent is that heavy that the only people to understand it come from the same town its not really much use to global aviation communication.
And that must be getting on for 15-20 of them.
It proberly not the CAA's fault it will be an ICAO rule that you have to be tested in some form. And this is the easiest way they could think of doing it. To be fair some of the PPL's I taught from rural scotland would not pass an ICAO level 6 in English a 4 would be a struggle. I could barely understand them after being brought up in a doric speaking enviroment. And there a few other heavy regional accents which can and do cause problems. The way I took the requirement it wasn't English as such that was being tested it was aviation english used for communication. You can speak a form of english perfectly but if your accent is that heavy that the only people to understand it come from the same town its not really much use to global aviation communication.
From your answer it would seem that being born within the UK, whether Welsh or Gaelic speaking, that by the age of 17 years you will not have a grasp of the English language beyond level 4.
