Training from Unlicensed Airfields ?
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Training from Unlicensed Airfields ?
Lot's of talk and speculation but wondering if anybody has any concrete facts. I got lost in the maze of EASA npr and CAA are unable to advise.
So when can we start training from unlicensed airfields? does anybody know a date ?
Or am I being too simplistic for EASA / CAA
Anything definite much appreciated
So when can we start training from unlicensed airfields? does anybody know a date ?
Or am I being too simplistic for EASA / CAA
Anything definite much appreciated
The CAA consultation date for the proposal to amend Article 126 of the UK ANO to permit flight training in Aeroplanes and Helicopters from unlicensed aerodromes closed on 10 July 2008.
An outcome is still awaited!
See: Consultation - LAASG FTSG Proposals | Consultations | CAA
An outcome is still awaited!
See: Consultation - LAASG FTSG Proposals | Consultations | CAA
Any delay is undoubtedly due to the need to establish the impact of EASA part-FCL NPA17 and part-OPS NPA02.
The CAA were very supportive of the LAASG study; however, it would be nugatory effort to embark on the necessary legislative changes to the ANO only to have some €urocrat overrule them in a couple of years time.
The CAA were very supportive of the LAASG study; however, it would be nugatory effort to embark on the necessary legislative changes to the ANO only to have some €urocrat overrule them in a couple of years time.
Flight training from unlicensed aerodromes was offered to industry on a plate in 1995. Out of 2500 letters of consultation sent out, only 125 individuals replied, of those around 70 turned down the offer!
The LAASG working group completed their recommendations over 3 years ago; some industry members of that group expressed their concern that the necessary safety processes would probably cost as much if not more than the current licensing system.
The group were also aware that any recommendations they might make would probably be replaced by EASA regulation within a few years. As EASA do not have a licensing system for aerodromes, it is probable that there will be no change until EASA comes of age, on the grounds that there is little point introducing a legal change that may scrapped as soon as it is incorporated.
Realistically, if it happens March 2012 is a likely date.
The LAASG working group completed their recommendations over 3 years ago; some industry members of that group expressed their concern that the necessary safety processes would probably cost as much if not more than the current licensing system.
The group were also aware that any recommendations they might make would probably be replaced by EASA regulation within a few years. As EASA do not have a licensing system for aerodromes, it is probable that there will be no change until EASA comes of age, on the grounds that there is little point introducing a legal change that may scrapped as soon as it is incorporated.
Realistically, if it happens March 2012 is a likely date.
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I'm generally of the view that aviation in Europe is horribly over regulated, but it seems to me sensible that flight training (which by its nature carries more risk than normal GA flying) is best carried out at a licensed airfield which has proper crash / fire cover?
Interestingly one of the facts presented to the LAASG committee was that there was no evidence to show that proper crash / fire cover had ever saved a life in the ab-initio training environment. Ironically at the time the committee were in session, there was an accident involving a motor glider where fire destroyed the aircraft following a take off incident. Motor gliders operated under the BGA do not need a licensed aerodrome for training, due to the reduced risk as they carry a limited amount of fuel.
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At the moment we have an unlevel playing field whereby trial lessons can be flown from an unlicensed airfield in a microlight but not in a C152 or similar training aircraft.
Also many existing training providers operating from licensed airfields have in effect a monopoly on flight training. These operators will face competition when the rules are changed and so they quite understandably resist any changes.
Also many existing training providers operating from licensed airfields have in effect a monopoly on flight training. These operators will face competition when the rules are changed and so they quite understandably resist any changes.
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Training from un licensed airfields
I am interested to know why some airfields in europe conduct PPL training from un-licensed airfields now.. and also flight training when the airfields are closed (unlicensed). I know this occurs in France, if we are in Europe then surely the rules should be aligned with all of europe. Also there are an odd airfield in the uk that conducts training and you really have to ask how it is licensed in the first place, with this in mind are they any safer than a well run un licensed air field...
Licensing of aerodromes is unique to the UK. In France they simply operate to ICAO Annex 14 there is no licencing as such.
The requirement to conduct PPL training from a licensed aerodrome is in the UK ANO; It is not not applicable in any other State, hence:
CAA Stds Doc 39:
This is called nearest equivalence so as not to make it unfair to UK RFs who have to comply with Art 126.
The requirement to conduct PPL training from a licensed aerodrome is in the UK ANO; It is not not applicable in any other State, hence:
CAA Stds Doc 39:
Use of an overseas training location will not be approved unless it can be demonstrated that the aerodrome, heliport or landing site can at least meet the requirements of CAP 168. In particular, evidence must be provided that rescue and fire-fighting services, capable of meeting the response times detailed in CAP 168 Appendix 8 are available whenever flight training is taking place.
It's getting there.....
The following was reported on behalf of a CAA spokesman (his caveat in quote marks at the end) to the BHA/CAA On-Shore Liaison Committee (Helicopters) in October 2009:
The Light Aviation Airports Study Group (LAASG) was established in 2005 as a result of suggestions from Industry & Recreational Flying Organisations relating to the regulation of light aviation aerodromes. A Flight Training Sub-Group (FTSG) of the LAASG was formed to consider proposals to allow flight training at unlicensed aerodromes.
The FTSG concluded that allowing fight training at unlicensed aerodromes was a viable option, so the CAA conducted a public consultation on a proposal to amend the ANO accordingly. The consultation showed a significant majority of support for the proposal from consultees.
The FTSG met in Oct 2008 to decide the way forward and industry members undertook to produce a revised Code of Practice. At the subsequent meeting of the FTSG in June 2009, the draft Code of Practice was discussed and it was apparent that Industry members did not wish to have “ownership” of a Code of Practice, nor did they wish to enforce it or incur any liability from it. The CAA has therefore undertaken to review existing guidance material in CAP 428 “Safety Standards at Unlicensed Airfields” as an alternative to an industry Code of Practice.
Approval is being sought from CAA senior management to proceed towards an ANO amendment and to produce suitable guidance material for operators who may wish to train from unlicensed airfields. The ANO amendment is likely to take some time because the Department for Transport's Legislative programme is heavily populated, but it may be possible to issue exemptions in advance of the ANO change going through.
Work on the guidance document will start within the next month and is expected to be complete by the end of the year, including the necessary internal review processes.
“I emphasise that this summary is purely my understanding of where progress with this issue has got to now, and is no guarantee of the final outcome. Therefore it should not be relied upon to make any business decisions until a formal announcement is made by the CAA, which will be widely publicised”
The following was reported on behalf of a CAA spokesman (his caveat in quote marks at the end) to the BHA/CAA On-Shore Liaison Committee (Helicopters) in October 2009:
The Light Aviation Airports Study Group (LAASG) was established in 2005 as a result of suggestions from Industry & Recreational Flying Organisations relating to the regulation of light aviation aerodromes. A Flight Training Sub-Group (FTSG) of the LAASG was formed to consider proposals to allow flight training at unlicensed aerodromes.
The FTSG concluded that allowing fight training at unlicensed aerodromes was a viable option, so the CAA conducted a public consultation on a proposal to amend the ANO accordingly. The consultation showed a significant majority of support for the proposal from consultees.
The FTSG met in Oct 2008 to decide the way forward and industry members undertook to produce a revised Code of Practice. At the subsequent meeting of the FTSG in June 2009, the draft Code of Practice was discussed and it was apparent that Industry members did not wish to have “ownership” of a Code of Practice, nor did they wish to enforce it or incur any liability from it. The CAA has therefore undertaken to review existing guidance material in CAP 428 “Safety Standards at Unlicensed Airfields” as an alternative to an industry Code of Practice.
Approval is being sought from CAA senior management to proceed towards an ANO amendment and to produce suitable guidance material for operators who may wish to train from unlicensed airfields. The ANO amendment is likely to take some time because the Department for Transport's Legislative programme is heavily populated, but it may be possible to issue exemptions in advance of the ANO change going through.
Work on the guidance document will start within the next month and is expected to be complete by the end of the year, including the necessary internal review processes.
“I emphasise that this summary is purely my understanding of where progress with this issue has got to now, and is no guarantee of the final outcome. Therefore it should not be relied upon to make any business decisions until a formal announcement is made by the CAA, which will be widely publicised”
Approval is being sought from CAA senior management to proceed towards an ANO amendment
I think that the idea was that by not requiring a licence it would open up more airfields for training rather than result in less licensed aerodromes overall. So the revenue should remain much the same.
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Licensing of aerodromes is unique to the UK.
If an airfield is only certified for gliders and/or powergliders, you cannot land/take-off and definitely not train there with a Cessna. Also, all airfields are required during opening hours to have someone at the field to cover rescue equipment and work the radios (lots of hot discussion about this going on for years).
Training is a risky business and I feel it's only right that it should be conducted at certified fields only......being certified, there is a certain guarantie that it is kept in order (grass cut, etc.).