CAA Set to abolish Registered Training Facilties
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Guys
If it has the word "Europe" in it, it is evil and unaccountable. You haven't seen anything yet. this is just the very beginning. Don't believe me? Just stand back and watch.
The treaty of Rome will cost you dear.
If it has the word "Europe" in it, it is evil and unaccountable. You haven't seen anything yet. this is just the very beginning. Don't believe me? Just stand back and watch.
The treaty of Rome will cost you dear.
Join Date: May 2002
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EASA Flight Instructor
My understanding is that my UK BCPL(R) will be treated as a UK PPL on 12 APR 2012 or at some later point when European Law is enacted. At that point I will be able to instruct on EASA SEP class aircraft such as PA-28s and C-172s provided I obtain a JAR PPL. This however will be without remuneration! In the interim it will assist the process if I apply now for a JAR PPL as this converts to an EASA PPL when the relevant law is enacted. My UK PPL will only allow me to be remunerated when exercising my FI and FE(PPL) rating privileges in military and other rare training types. I have just renewed my UK BCPL(R) for £136 and expect to pay £181 for the initial issue fee for a JAR PPL.
In short, at the time of European law enactment I will not be able to cover the costs of providing training services in EASA SEP class aircraft.
AOPA course and IMC rating training and cross channel checks will also become unviable.
Please tell me this is just another scare story!
In short, at the time of European law enactment I will not be able to cover the costs of providing training services in EASA SEP class aircraft.
AOPA course and IMC rating training and cross channel checks will also become unviable.
Please tell me this is just another scare story!
Please tell me this is just another scare story!
Its interesting that when your BCPL(R) was issued, due to a law change, they did it free of charge, this time you have to pay for the privilege of a law change from an unelected body!
Under EASA I forsee a lot of PPL instructors dropping back to a PPL and saving money on the medical.
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"Under EASA I forsee a lot of PPL instructors dropping back to a PPL and saving money on the medical"
Yep and I will be one of them.
How much money have a wasted renewing a class one every year. Only to find out that it will again be "safe" to instruct on a class two.
Yep and I will be one of them.
How much money have a wasted renewing a class one every year. Only to find out that it will again be "safe" to instruct on a class two.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Basics
..but what happens when you want to exercise the extensive privileges of your hard worked for, unrestricted Basic Commercial Pilot's licence?
e.g. Pleasure flights, Aerial Photography etc..
....the list is endless
e.g. Pleasure flights, Aerial Photography etc..
....the list is endless
The 'unrestricted' BCPL will be deemed to be a UK national CPL, which may be converted to an EASA CPL in accordance with the terms of Annex II to the enabling regulation. If you have more than 500 hrs PIC and a night rating, then it's a paper exercise (the folding sort and lots of it, no doubt).
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I have an FI rating and a restricted JAR CPL. The restrictions are no public transport, day only, radio required at controlled airfields, UK airspace, UK reg. All due to colour vision issues.
I asked the CAA what will happen to my license and I recieved this response:-
...... as your current licence is restricted to G-registered aircraft, it will become a UK CPL(A) - which is then convertible to an EASA licence.
You will have to demonstrate knowledge of flight performance and planning as required by FCL.310 for that conversion.
The proposed text of FCL.310 refers to the theoretical knowledge examinations for CPL.
If you have valid passes in the required examinations that have not lapsed by the time the conversion takes place, then these will allow you to meet that part of the conversion requirements. CPL exam passes have a validity of 36 months.
I would also point out Annex II to the EASA regulation stipulates that you will also need to:
- Have a valid proficiency check;
- Demonstrate knowledge of Part-OPS and Part-FCL; and
- Demonstrate language proficiency
So if the conversion takes place more than 36 months after my exam pass in performance and planning, I will have to do the exam again! On top of that, I may need to fly a proficiency check (hopefully my IMCr rewnewal check ride will meet this requirement). All this seems a little unfair, since the folks who sat the same exams and had the same training as me but who have unrestricted CPLs will not have to do anything. Descrimination?
And after all this, will EASA be prepared to issue me a CPL with night and public transport restrictions?
I asked the CAA what will happen to my license and I recieved this response:-
...... as your current licence is restricted to G-registered aircraft, it will become a UK CPL(A) - which is then convertible to an EASA licence.
You will have to demonstrate knowledge of flight performance and planning as required by FCL.310 for that conversion.
The proposed text of FCL.310 refers to the theoretical knowledge examinations for CPL.
If you have valid passes in the required examinations that have not lapsed by the time the conversion takes place, then these will allow you to meet that part of the conversion requirements. CPL exam passes have a validity of 36 months.
I would also point out Annex II to the EASA regulation stipulates that you will also need to:
- Have a valid proficiency check;
- Demonstrate knowledge of Part-OPS and Part-FCL; and
- Demonstrate language proficiency
So if the conversion takes place more than 36 months after my exam pass in performance and planning, I will have to do the exam again! On top of that, I may need to fly a proficiency check (hopefully my IMCr rewnewal check ride will meet this requirement). All this seems a little unfair, since the folks who sat the same exams and had the same training as me but who have unrestricted CPLs will not have to do anything. Descrimination?
And after all this, will EASA be prepared to issue me a CPL with night and public transport restrictions?
it will become a UK CPL(A) - which is then convertible to an EASA licence.
The restrictions are ....... All due to colour vision issues.
As your "Restriction" is due to medical reasons, nothing is going to change and you won't be able to get an EASA licence for the very same reason!
I would reply pointing out their error and request the correct answer.
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Further to my earlier post - I went back to the CAA and made it clear that my restriction was medical. I recieved the following response:-
.....In future all medical restrictions will be shown on the Medical Certificate only, not on the licence.
EASA will not issue licences. EASA Part-FCL licences will continue to be issued by the National Aviation Authorities - in your case the CAA.
Any medical limitations will be those shown on your medical certificate, which will apply to all licences you may hold.
So it looks like I can get an EASA CPL if I jump through all the hoops, although the hoops remain illogical and unfair.
.....In future all medical restrictions will be shown on the Medical Certificate only, not on the licence.
EASA will not issue licences. EASA Part-FCL licences will continue to be issued by the National Aviation Authorities - in your case the CAA.
Any medical limitations will be those shown on your medical certificate, which will apply to all licences you may hold.
So it looks like I can get an EASA CPL if I jump through all the hoops, although the hoops remain illogical and unfair.
Join Date: May 2002
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Nothing gained, nothing lost
Quote:
Please tell me this is just another scare story!
Yes it is. You will be able to continue as before, with your JAA/EASA PPL and FI rating and be remunerated exactly as you are now. Nothing gained, nothing lost. You won't actually need the BCPL as you will also be able to fly Annex II aircraft with your EASA licence according to the CAAs current guidance.
Its interesting that when your BCPL(R) was issued, due to a law change, they did it free of charge, this time you have to pay for the privilege of a law change from an unelected body!
Under EASA I forsee a lot of PPL instructors dropping back to a PPL and saving money on the medical.
Your advice is much appreciated.
Since this post it has been pointed out to me in a recent conversation that the conversion from restricted UK BCPL to EASA PPL will involve the surrender of the UK licence with any pertaining "grandfather rights".
So the best licensing strategy appears to be to do nothing!
This, I recall, is what happened with the CAA to JAR-FCL transition!
This strategy presumably can be extended to remunerated flying on a PPL, instruction in sole ownership aeroplanes, Registered Training Facilities, IMC ratings and so on.
The European Parliament is subjugating National rules and the CAA in turn advising PPL holders to convert to Part-FCL to mitigate legislative problems.
Please tell me this is just another scare story!
Yes it is. You will be able to continue as before, with your JAA/EASA PPL and FI rating and be remunerated exactly as you are now. Nothing gained, nothing lost. You won't actually need the BCPL as you will also be able to fly Annex II aircraft with your EASA licence according to the CAAs current guidance.
Its interesting that when your BCPL(R) was issued, due to a law change, they did it free of charge, this time you have to pay for the privilege of a law change from an unelected body!
Under EASA I forsee a lot of PPL instructors dropping back to a PPL and saving money on the medical.
Your advice is much appreciated.
Since this post it has been pointed out to me in a recent conversation that the conversion from restricted UK BCPL to EASA PPL will involve the surrender of the UK licence with any pertaining "grandfather rights".
So the best licensing strategy appears to be to do nothing!
This, I recall, is what happened with the CAA to JAR-FCL transition!
This strategy presumably can be extended to remunerated flying on a PPL, instruction in sole ownership aeroplanes, Registered Training Facilities, IMC ratings and so on.
The European Parliament is subjugating National rules and the CAA in turn advising PPL holders to convert to Part-FCL to mitigate legislative problems.
Last edited by rhwheeler; 2nd Aug 2011 at 10:43. Reason: Quote not inserted.
conversion from restricted UK BCPL to EASA PPL will involve the surrender of the UK licence
Registered Training Facilities, IMC ratings and so on.
Just remember the "S" in EASA has nothing to do with "Safety" and should be replaced with Shyster.
Join Date: May 2002
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Registered Training Facilities
My RTF was cancelled last week. This was due to a name change. I am now required to make an initial application.
I read this morning that an Aerobatic Rating AR is being introduced by EASA. The requirement is PPL + 40 hours before starting the course. What advice is to be given to pilots wanting to do an aerobatic course. I assume that without an AR aerobatics will not be permitted in EASA aeroplanes.
I read this morning that an Aerobatic Rating AR is being introduced by EASA. The requirement is PPL + 40 hours before starting the course. What advice is to be given to pilots wanting to do an aerobatic course. I assume that without an AR aerobatics will not be permitted in EASA aeroplanes.
FCL.800 Aerobatic Rating
(a) Holders of a pilot licence for aeroplanes, TMG or sailplanes shall only undertake aerobatic flights when they hold the appropriate rating.
(b) Applicants for an aerobatic rating shall have completed:
(1) at least 40 hours of flight time or, in the case of sailplanes, 120 launches as PIC in the appropriate aircraft category, completed after the issue of the licence;
(2) a training course at an ATO, including;
(i) theoretical knowledge instruction appropriate for the rating;
(ii) at least 5 hours or 20 flights of aerobatic instruction in the appropriate aircraft category
No, the requirement is to hold a licence (may be a LAPL) and to have flown 40 hours PIC since licence issue.
Go to an ATO that is approved to provide the course. However, there is currently no indication of course content, and won't be until the associated AMC and GM is published next year.
Your assumption is correct.
It is to be hoped that the UK will take advantage of the option of a 1 year derogation from all Annexes that was agreed at the last EASA Committee meeting.
(a) Holders of a pilot licence for aeroplanes, TMG or sailplanes shall only undertake aerobatic flights when they hold the appropriate rating.
(b) Applicants for an aerobatic rating shall have completed:
(1) at least 40 hours of flight time or, in the case of sailplanes, 120 launches as PIC in the appropriate aircraft category, completed after the issue of the licence;
(2) a training course at an ATO, including;
(i) theoretical knowledge instruction appropriate for the rating;
(ii) at least 5 hours or 20 flights of aerobatic instruction in the appropriate aircraft category
The requirement is PPL + 40 hours before starting the course.
What advice is to be given to pilots wanting to do an aerobatic course.
I assume that without an AR aerobatics will not be permitted in EASA aeroplanes.
It is to be hoped that the UK will take advantage of the option of a 1 year derogation from all Annexes that was agreed at the last EASA Committee meeting.
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Hello,
I'm looking for some advice.
I have a JAA-PPL(A) and have recently completed the JAA ATPL theoretical exams, and hold a current Class 1 medical. I took the exams simply because I wanted to complete a Flight Instructor Rating.
My current plan involves completing the JAA CPL in October and the JAA FI-R in Nov/Dec.
However I'm a bit concerned about how the EASA might affect me; the truth is I'm unsure what the implications are? Should I wait until April 2012? Reading some of the posts seems like that exams was effort wasted. Is there somewhere that provides a summary of the changes and the implications? Doing a CPL and an FI involves raiding the piggy bank so I want to make the best, most informed decision possible. Any advice/information would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Colin.
I'm looking for some advice.
I have a JAA-PPL(A) and have recently completed the JAA ATPL theoretical exams, and hold a current Class 1 medical. I took the exams simply because I wanted to complete a Flight Instructor Rating.
My current plan involves completing the JAA CPL in October and the JAA FI-R in Nov/Dec.
However I'm a bit concerned about how the EASA might affect me; the truth is I'm unsure what the implications are? Should I wait until April 2012? Reading some of the posts seems like that exams was effort wasted. Is there somewhere that provides a summary of the changes and the implications? Doing a CPL and an FI involves raiding the piggy bank so I want to make the best, most informed decision possible. Any advice/information would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Colin.
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Colin
You will still need the CPL level knowledge to do an FI anyway under EASA so you haven't wasted anything. If you've done the exams, it would then be pretty brave not to do the CPL course before the exams expire. I'd carry on as per your plan. All info is on the CAA website, they have a good summary doc on there.
You will still need the CPL level knowledge to do an FI anyway under EASA so you haven't wasted anything. If you've done the exams, it would then be pretty brave not to do the CPL course before the exams expire. I'd carry on as per your plan. All info is on the CAA website, they have a good summary doc on there.
Join Date: May 2002
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Registered Facilities
Name changes for registered facilities are treated as an initial application. One unexpected requirement:
The use of any shared planning and briefing facilities requires permission written on headed company notepaper.
The use of any shared planning and briefing facilities requires permission written on headed company notepaper.
