SEP(A) land rating question for JAA examiner!
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SEP(A) land rating question for JAA examiner!
Hello JAA examiner!
I have 12 hours now logged in my second 24 months, and I am about to do 1 hour with an instructor at a london based school.
Can anybody help me and tell me how Do I go about getting an examiner to sign my SEP rating valid for another 2 years??
Do I have to arrange it with the CAA and pay a fee?
Do I need the aircrafts logs aswell as my own pilot look book for the examiner and CAA to check?
How exactly does one do this??
Thanks for the advice
I have 12 hours now logged in my second 24 months, and I am about to do 1 hour with an instructor at a london based school.
Can anybody help me and tell me how Do I go about getting an examiner to sign my SEP rating valid for another 2 years??
Do I have to arrange it with the CAA and pay a fee?
Do I need the aircrafts logs aswell as my own pilot look book for the examiner and CAA to check?
How exactly does one do this??
Thanks for the advice
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Your instructor will sign your log book and if he is also an examiner will also sign your rating certificate. If he is not an examiner, he will probably know of one who will sign it for you. ( provided it is within 3 months of expiry) Most examiners do not charge for a signature . You will not need aircraft logs, only your flying log book. The examiner will also require you to sign a form which he will submit to the CAA for you.
Most examiners do not charge for a signature.
Incidentally, it is the applicant's responsibility to send the completed SRG\1119 to the CAA, not the Examiner's.
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Quote:
Most examiners do not charge for a signature.
You mean there are some who do??
Incidentally, it is the applicant's responsibility to send the completed SRG\1119 to the CAA, not the Examiner's.
Most examiners do not charge for a signature.
You mean there are some who do??
Incidentally, it is the applicant's responsibility to send the completed SRG\1119 to the CAA, not the Examiner's.
I do it for nothing and have had a hard time on a couple of occasions for it. I always send the SRG1119 off for the applicant as I scan them for filing an batch send very couple of weeks.
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If he is not an examiner, he will probably know of one who will sign it for you. ( provided it is within 3 months of expiry)
The examminer will sign anytime provided that the rating is valid and the requirements are met.
The requirements do not have to be met in the last 12 months of the 24 month validity. This myth comes up far too often.
The requirements must be met in the 12 months prior to the licence being presented to the examiner for signature.
The licence can be signed at any time provided that the rating is valid. If the signatire is obtained in the last 3 months of rating validity then the new period will run from the expiry date of the old rating. If it is before the 3 month "window" then it will run from the date of signing.
So if your rating expires on Dec 31 then you can present the licence to the examiner on 1 October. The examminer will be checking back to the previous October for the requirements and not just back to January.
As for charging to sign the licence - a token admin fee may be appropriate to cover postage etc etc. But £35 - you can not be serious!!!
£35 for a 5 minute (max) piece of pen pushing?
Regards,
DFC
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When is the end?
DFC
You have made the statement many times that in your opinion the SEPL rating may be revalidated at any time and not only within the second 12 month block.
LASORS states quite clearly that the required minimum experience MUST be obtained within the 12 month period preceding the rating expiry date.
It may be expedient on some occasions to revalidate by flight test early, even after only 11 months and 30 days. I cannot see how it can be interpreted that you may use the necessary experience during any 12 month period simply out of choice.
You have made the statement many times that in your opinion the SEPL rating may be revalidated at any time and not only within the second 12 month block.
LASORS states quite clearly that the required minimum experience MUST be obtained within the 12 month period preceding the rating expiry date.
It may be expedient on some occasions to revalidate by flight test early, even after only 11 months and 30 days. I cannot see how it can be interpreted that you may use the necessary experience during any 12 month period simply out of choice.
Last edited by homeguard; 19th May 2008 at 00:15.
Well, I side with DFC.
LASORS2008 states:
Revalidation by Proficiency Check
A SEP (Land) and/or TMG rating may be revalidated
by passing a Proficiency Check (LPC) with a JAR
authorised Flight Examiner (FE(A)) or Class Rating
Examiner (CRE(A)). If completed within the three months
preceding the expiry date of the rating(s), no loss of rating
validity will be incurred - the new rating expiry date will be
calculated from the preceding rating expiry date, not from
the date of the Proficiency Check.
Unfortunately the CAA cocked things up by inventing the absurd 'must be within 3 months' requirement for the signature when revalidating by experience (although they won't admit it) - there being no such requirement under JAR-FCL. Hence this nonsense:
If revalidating by flying experience, and providing
the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation
page within the 3 months prior to the rating expiry,
the validity of the revalidated rating will be calculated
from the date of expiry of the preceding rating.
LASORS2008 states:
Revalidation by Proficiency Check
A SEP (Land) and/or TMG rating may be revalidated
by passing a Proficiency Check (LPC) with a JAR
authorised Flight Examiner (FE(A)) or Class Rating
Examiner (CRE(A)). If completed within the three months
preceding the expiry date of the rating(s), no loss of rating
validity will be incurred - the new rating expiry date will be
calculated from the preceding rating expiry date, not from
the date of the Proficiency Check.
Unfortunately the CAA cocked things up by inventing the absurd 'must be within 3 months' requirement for the signature when revalidating by experience (although they won't admit it) - there being no such requirement under JAR-FCL. Hence this nonsense:
If revalidating by flying experience, and providing
the examiner signs the Certificate of Revalidation
page within the 3 months prior to the rating expiry,
the validity of the revalidated rating will be calculated
from the date of expiry of the preceding rating.
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When is the end?
I to don't want to disagree with DFC but I cannot reconcile the statement in LASORS 2008:
that the minimum experience required MUST be obtained within the 12 month period preceding the rating expiry date.
What you have stated in your post BEagle dosn't deal with that one particular issue raised by DFC.
that the minimum experience required MUST be obtained within the 12 month period preceding the rating expiry date.
What you have stated in your post BEagle dosn't deal with that one particular issue raised by DFC.
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Might be a worthwhile exercise to find out how much it costs to get a piece of paper that says you are now an Examiner.
If you wish to recoup your investment and stay in business then charging a fee for your signature and admin processing is not unreasonable, I do agree however that £35 is a bit OTT.
If you wish to recoup your investment and stay in business then charging a fee for your signature and admin processing is not unreasonable, I do agree however that £35 is a bit OTT.
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Below Radar
I did a CRE/IRRE/OPC course last year and the total cost has worked out to about £7k which includes the groundschool and flight exams VAT, landing fees etc. I did it in piston twins so as to carry on to become qualified to do LST/LPC/OPC/IR renewals/revalidations on a light bizjet - on which I already held CRI. So it would be sigificantly cheaper to do it in a single if no ME examiner qualification was needed.
Whilst I agree with examiners eventually recovering their investment I don't charge for signing SEP revalidations by experience and I keep copies of all the 1119s I send to FCL, and thus send them myself in a batch rather than give to the licence holder to send. That way I know it's been done.
Others may do things differently.
That's their privilege.
Level 400
I did a CRE/IRRE/OPC course last year and the total cost has worked out to about £7k which includes the groundschool and flight exams VAT, landing fees etc. I did it in piston twins so as to carry on to become qualified to do LST/LPC/OPC/IR renewals/revalidations on a light bizjet - on which I already held CRI. So it would be sigificantly cheaper to do it in a single if no ME examiner qualification was needed.
Whilst I agree with examiners eventually recovering their investment I don't charge for signing SEP revalidations by experience and I keep copies of all the 1119s I send to FCL, and thus send them myself in a batch rather than give to the licence holder to send. That way I know it's been done.
Others may do things differently.
That's their privilege.
Level 400
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From the current examiner's handbook (version 2006/7, dated 01/07/06, page 29):
For SEP and TMG revalidation by experience, irrespective of when in the last 12 months the experience requirements have been met, the ANO requires that revalidation should only be carried out during the 3 months before expiry.
Mad, but there it is, and it does say 'in the last 12 months', although elsewhere reference is made to the 12 months preceding expiry. Solution: 'Bloggs, your previous rating expired today, it is replaced by this one which runs from today....' Happy?
Agreed £35 sounds a bit steep, I think our school charges £10 if non-member, free otherwise.
For SEP and TMG revalidation by experience, irrespective of when in the last 12 months the experience requirements have been met, the ANO requires that revalidation should only be carried out during the 3 months before expiry.
Mad, but there it is, and it does say 'in the last 12 months', although elsewhere reference is made to the 12 months preceding expiry. Solution: 'Bloggs, your previous rating expired today, it is replaced by this one which runs from today....' Happy?
Agreed £35 sounds a bit steep, I think our school charges £10 if non-member, free otherwise.
Last edited by DB6; 19th May 2008 at 16:11.
The JAA Requirement is for the rating to be revalidated in the last 12 months preceeding expiry however; when the ANO was rewritten in 2000 a mistake appeared where the 3 month requirement for the LPC was mixed up with the 12 month requirement for revalidation by experience. That error resulted in the 3 month window appearing in Schedule 8 and has never been corrected; it subsequently appeared in LASORS. As there is no date of signing on most of the Cs of R then most examiners have followed the 12 month JAA requirement. I don't think anyone is going to get excited about it.
If an examiner charges for a signature go elsewhere!
If an examiner charges for a signature go elsewhere!
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why would someone spend money gaining a qualification then give away the privileges for free? 
You are all quick enough to condemn when instructors work for free to hour build. It is just as bad as students expecting the instructor to pass on all his very expensively bought and hard studied for theoretical knowledge for free...
Or are examiners supposed to be in a league of gentlemen that kindly look down on the poverty stricken PPL's with no money and feel they need to make a condescending gesture?
If private pilots were poor they would NOT be flying and would not own their own aeroplane. They are not on social security and do not need handouts.
I cannot stop laughing at this ridiculous double standard. However, charges should make sense. £35 for just a signature and a five minute check of the logbook is too much, £10 would be reasonable even £5 but there should be something.
You are all quick enough to condemn when instructors work for free to hour build. It is just as bad as students expecting the instructor to pass on all his very expensively bought and hard studied for theoretical knowledge for free...
Or are examiners supposed to be in a league of gentlemen that kindly look down on the poverty stricken PPL's with no money and feel they need to make a condescending gesture?
If private pilots were poor they would NOT be flying and would not own their own aeroplane. They are not on social security and do not need handouts.
I cannot stop laughing at this ridiculous double standard. However, charges should make sense. £35 for just a signature and a five minute check of the logbook is too much, £10 would be reasonable even £5 but there should be something.
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Why should there be a charge for signing a piece of paper? I do not charge, I just ask that they supply a stamped addressed envelope.
Reaming pilots at every opportunity even if it is for a fiver is what is killing GA. All of these tenners or 'even fivers' add up. Flying is expensive and every pilot we put off with rip off fees is one less person to put revenue in the coffers for fuel, landings, food, pilot supplies etc. Cutting noses off to spite faces.
Money is tight and ripping them off to sign a piece of paper that takes 2 minutes is just obscene.
I prefer to think that if you don't leave people feeling ripped off they come back for further training, license revalidation flights etc. Seems to work.
Reaming pilots at every opportunity even if it is for a fiver is what is killing GA. All of these tenners or 'even fivers' add up. Flying is expensive and every pilot we put off with rip off fees is one less person to put revenue in the coffers for fuel, landings, food, pilot supplies etc. Cutting noses off to spite faces.
Money is tight and ripping them off to sign a piece of paper that takes 2 minutes is just obscene.
I prefer to think that if you don't leave people feeling ripped off they come back for further training, license revalidation flights etc. Seems to work.
I recall receiving a letter from the CAA over 10 years ago stating that there is no charge for the signing of Cs of T and Cs of E as they were then, and that examiners should not make such a charge. They are of course acting on behalf of the CAA! I am not aware of any changes to this.
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Why does it have to be an examiner in the first place? Why not the FI or CRI who signed the log book for the revalidation flight? They could complete the paperwork at the same time, if the hours requirements have been met, or later on when the required flying has taken place. I always check pilot's log book, licence for revalidation and medical in date anyway, as a reality check for the pilot, you'd be suprised how many are grateful for that!
TheOddOne
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I recall receiving a letter from the CAA over 10 years ago stating that there is no charge for the signing of Cs of T and Cs of E as they were then, and that examiners should not make such a charge. They are of course acting on behalf of the CAA! I am not aware of any changes to this.
People can obtain a "R" examiner authorisation for free from the CAA and go out and sign off certificates.
The "GR" costs money. However, a GR can conduct the PPL and IMC writtens and is entitled to charge for same - the CAA publishes an exam fee for such exams conducted by the CAA. Examiners can set their own fee for such exams.
Thus the cost of having a GR is recovered through charging for the written exams.
Signatures should be free except for the (very small) admin cost.....a postage stamp and some ink.
Examiners trying to recover the authorisation fee by charging for a signature should be reminded that the R examiner authorisation costs nothing.
Regards,
DFC
