End of Instruction for EU licences by ICAO FIs?

[fibod]

This may be one of those ill-informed rumours, but I was told at the weekend that when EASA takes over Flight Crew Licensing from the JAA next year, instructors delivering training towards EASA licences or ratings will have to hold an EASA, JAA, or EASA Member State National licence with FI (or TRI) rating.

I'd not normally take too much notice, but this is the second time I have heard the rumour. If true, it would have a dramatic effect on the UK training industry, as all the major commercial FTOs in the UK use non-EASA member state locations for training. Other European FTOs may be affected to a similar of lesser extent. Busjet operators would also be hit big time.

I tried to look this up on the EASA website but quickly got lost.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[BEagle]

The CEOs of the major UK training organisations have addressed this issue to the EASA €urocrats in no uncertain terms!

The problem hinges on 'reciprocity' with the US, I understand. But quite why the FAA is so resistant to change is beyond me - as the costs in the US are undoubtedly lower, they would hardly lose business to the UK if it was permitted for a JAA FI/TRI/CRI to conduct training for a FAA licence/rating in cold, wet Europe!

[chrisbl]

if it was permitted for a JAA FI/TRI/CRI to conduct training for a FAA licence/rating in cold, wet Europe!

They can conduct training towards an FAA certificate and rating. What they cannot do is do the signoff for the checkride (practical test).




Sec. 61.41 - Flight training received from flight instructors not certificated by the FAA.
(a) A person may credit flight training toward the requirements of a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part, if that person received the training from:
(1) A flight instructor of an Armed Force in a program for training military pilots of either --
(i) The United States; or
(ii) A foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.
(2) A flight instructor who is authorized to give such training by the licensing authority of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, and the flight training is given outside the United States. (b) A flight instructor described in paragraph (a) of this section is only authorized to give endorsements to show training given.



Sec. 61.39 - Prerequisites for practical tests.

6) Have an endorsement, if required by this part, in the applicant's logbook or training record that has been signed by an authorized instructor who certifies that the applicant --
(i) Has received and logged training time within 60 days preceding the date of application in preparation for the practical test;

[Oktas8]

Way back in the dark ages (1944 I think it was) some hopelessly naïve and starry-eyed people got together and formed an organisation to encourage states to adopt a common aviation system. Among other things it would allow license portability across national borders.

They called it ICAO.

Pity Fortress Europe and Fortress USA don't want to play these days.

But quite why the FAA is so resistant to change is beyond me

I can help you with that BEagle. Modern USA was settled by (mainly) Europeans. Unsurprisingly they inherited a European attitude to change. Present company and all PPRuNers excepted, naturally.

[scherzo]

Long live ICAO

Could we not quietly leave EU via the back door...and just revert to being a nice little ICAO state, thus avoiding the horrors of JAA/EASA and whatever they send along to replace EASA in 10 years time. (Remember we were promised JAA would be the end of the changes)

[fibod]

Well, the EASA NPA 2008-17 is now published on the EASA website:

http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/r_npa.php

I've had an admitidly cursory glance and it seems from that that this rumour is true. The implications for students and the FTO industry are enormous. Any license holder is encouraged to give feedback, so if you are affected (by this or any of the other changes), don't just moan on here about it, but post your feedback to EASA on their website.

[Keygrip]

fibod - you have this thread/topic running in both "Instructors" and in "Pro Training" forums (at least).

PPRuNe administration does not allow.

Pick one - which do you want to stay active? I'll close the other one and redirect to the remaining one.

[Shiver me timbers!]

Is this likely to have an impact on someone who completes a FAA PPL, but also has a JAA CPL/IR who wishes to instruct EASA PPLs?

Or is the PPL completely wiped out once a CPL is obtained?

[Whopity]

To instruct on the basis of a JAA licence you must have a JAA FI rating so the FAA certificate is irrelevant.

This is likely to have more impact at the TRTO level than FTO. Think of all the courses run by Flight Safety etc for type ratings using non JAA FIs!

[jez d]

AIUI, this is not an EASA proposal, but an EU regulation. The gist seems to be that if you wish to teach a license or rating then you must be a holder of that licence or rating. This is not aviation specific - it applies to driving instructors, et al.

It must indeed be of significant concern to FTOs and TRTOs, and as the FAA have stated to EASA that they are not interested in any form of recipricocity deal, something must be done from the European end to fix it.

I believe that FTOs and TRTOs have been discussing the situation with EASA, and that their best chance of getting round the regulation would be to enter a 'differences filing' with EU Parliament.

Back to the FAA, and I think the reason they won't agree to a recipricocity deal is political. In ther words, they would prefer to train their own 'terrorists' than have the EU do it. As the head of the FAA is appointed by the president, the current incumbent is unlikely to rock the boat at this stage, given he's only got a year left in office. And I doubt that the next FAA chief will view the situation much differently.

Jez

[fibod]

Sorry Keygrip; whichever you deem to be best.