Night Qualification Pre-Entry Requirements

[2close]

A question for the experienced instructors out there.

I have recently started instructing for the Night Qual and have been immediately aware of the 'run before walk' syndrome.

Night flying is a mix of visual and instrument flying, both in terms of general handling and navigation and only being a five hours (minimum) course I think that, before commencing the course the student should have a minimum level of competence in basic IF and Radio Nav - one student didn't realise that the ADF was pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction .

I have no problem with a student doing the Night Qual as part of the PPL but feel there needs to be a minimum pre-entry requirement before starting the course, based perhaps on log book evidence.

My question is, what do you feel those minimum standards should be and how do we assess it?

Thanks for any help.

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[BEagle]

I think that, before commencing the course the student should have a minimum level of competence in basic IF and Radio Nav

Basic IF, I grant you. But no real reason for 'Radio Nav'.

Personally I would recommend no 'night' until after a couple of solo day navigation exercises as well.

[mad_jock]

That could have been one of my ex students because they would have never seen one before.

In fact all of the night quals I did where in planes with no RNAV no GPS.

So apart from the standard PPL stuff they had no extra Instrument work.

Never had a problem with any of them.

What I did have a problem with was me. Looking back it was stupid doing the night restriction removal with the FIC. With a sum total of 6 hours at night and 20 odd landings I was teaching someone else how to land at night with 40 hours instruction under my belt. It was the blind leading the blind. Thankfully I only needed to do a couple of hours at night before the night didn't start until after the airport was shut. 9 months later with another 800 hours under my belt it was bloody hard work but alot safer.

It would be alot better for the instructor to have a pre teaching check than the student.

[Curtis E Carr]

I know you were talking about aeroplanes, but you may be interested to know that in the heli world, a greater degree of experience is required before being issued with the NQ.

From LASORS:

Applicants applying for a Night Qualification you must
produce evidence of having met the following flying
requirements:

• 100 hours of flight time as pilot of helicopters after
the issue of the PPL(H), including:

• 60 hours as Pilot in Command of helicopters; and

• 20 hours cross-country flight.

[Whopity]

In the good old days of CAP53 there was a requirement to do 5 hours IF as part of the night rating. You could count 3 of the 4 hours IF in the UK PPL syllabus, and then add another two. Those 2 hours were then also countable towards the IMC rating.

But the JAA decided it wasn't necessary and copied the FAA requirements. Consequently, on the introduction of JAR-FCL, the industry were advised that it would be advisable to include some additional basic IF in the night training course.

[lady in red]

I raised this subject a few years ago at a Flight Examiner Standardisation meeting as it seemed to me that there were two problems, both of which have been identified in this thread. Under the old system, a PPL had to have done a number of hours of IF training (I think it was 7 and they could count the 5 hours from their PPL in this) plus they had to have 10 hours post PPL before they did the Night Rating. The IF is, in my opinion,essential for safety, after all we are flying IFR at night and often there is a really black darkness with no horizon, so I do not know how a PPL untrained in IF apart from perhaps one hour in their PPL course, could remain Straight and level at night.

I suggested at the time, that a FI should require the PPL untrained in IF to carry out sufficient IF in the daytime before starting the Night training. This could of course be counted towards the IMC, if the FI is appropriately qualified (indeed under the old system you had a credit of a couple of hours night-IMC and vice versa depending which course you did first).

The other problem is that of the FI who is very inexperienced in night flying himself. I raised this too and LASORS was actually amended, but simply to require the FI candidate for Night instructor privileges to "be in current flying practice" (which is worse than useless as it does not specify "current at night").

I believe there are significant safety issues here, but as usual nothing will be done unless there is a serious accident. We therefore, as an industry, need to be diligent in ensuring that we train people according to their need and if they are not up to a good standard at IF then we have a duty to do extra training, even if it does cost the student more.

[2close]

Thanks for the helpful replies folks.

It's given me plenty of food of thought and I think I'll initiate some basic requirements prior to night training.

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[BEagle]

Looking back to my RAF days, I see that we didn't start basic night flying on the Jet Provost until after both the Advanced Instrument Flying Grading test and the Final Navigation Test had been passed successfully, by which time we had around 95 hours, of which 28 were solo.

As well as around 140 hours (55 solo) on the Chipmunk.

I agree with lady in red - nothing will change until there's a serious accident. Fortunately industry seems to be coping safely despite the JAA.....

[2close]

Am I being too cynical or is aviation regulation being controlled more and more by faceless bureaucrats with little or no epxerience in the industry and less and less by aviation experts who know what is actually required?

[Whopity]

No, you are spot on!