Instruments required for basic Commercial IR training?
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: W'n. USA--full time RV
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Instruments required for basic Commercial IR training?
Student shows up with his older two-place aircraft equipped only with needle, ball, airspeed, altimeter. No other gyros. No VOR or GPS, and just a magnetic compass and DR for navigation. Desires to receive the 10 hours of initial instrument training for the commercial certificate in this aircraft (it can, after all, be flown solely by reference to instruments--we call it "partial panel" when preparing for the Instrument Rating).
Question is, will the FAA (notably the DPE) honor that 10 hours of instrument training, in partial panel only, in computing the total instrument time when it comes to the Practical Test for the Instrument Rating or for the Commercial Certificate? Clearly the 10-hour requirement was originally intended to enable the pilot to recover safely from inadvertent excursions into IMC, and partial panel does just that--is there any basis for rejecting the candidate as not having "real" instrument time?
Question is, will the FAA (notably the DPE) honor that 10 hours of instrument training, in partial panel only, in computing the total instrument time when it comes to the Practical Test for the Instrument Rating or for the Commercial Certificate? Clearly the 10-hour requirement was originally intended to enable the pilot to recover safely from inadvertent excursions into IMC, and partial panel does just that--is there any basis for rejecting the candidate as not having "real" instrument time?
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found my answer
Interesting that 5 days of exposure on pprune and nobody responded--not a big issue, one suspects.
Anyway, tracked down a copy of 2003 FAQ's from FAA on FAR 61, answer found on page 170 (of 471!):"
"Situation 2: A person is undergoing training for an additional helicopter category and class rating at the commercial pilot certification level. The helicopter the person will be receiving training in is a non‑IFR certified Robinson R‑22.
"Question. What are the minimum flight instruments and equipment requirements for this Robinson R‑22 that are used for the instrument training for the add‑on helicopter category and class rating at the commercial pilot certification level that is addressed in § 61.129(c)(3)(i)? Meaning the kind of instrument training where it does not require the filing of an IFR flight plan and flight is going to occur during daytime conditions.
"Answer: Ref. § 61.129(c)(3)(i)and § 91.205(b); The instruments and equipment for the kind of instrument training required for § 61.129(c)(3)(i) during daytime conditions may be as minimal as the instruments requirements of § 91.205(b) with a portable communication receiver, and a portable VOR navigation receiver or some other kind of navigation receiver in the aircraft. As an example, if the training was given in a helicopter, the instrument and equipment requirements may be as a minimum: an airspeed indicator, altimeter, magnetic compass, a portable communication receiver, and a portable navigation receiver."
And the above puzzles even me: how are they going to keep the helicopter right side up if they don't have even a TI/TC for a gyro? Supernatural aid?
Anyway, tracked down a copy of 2003 FAQ's from FAA on FAR 61, answer found on page 170 (of 471!):"
"Situation 2: A person is undergoing training for an additional helicopter category and class rating at the commercial pilot certification level. The helicopter the person will be receiving training in is a non‑IFR certified Robinson R‑22.
"Question. What are the minimum flight instruments and equipment requirements for this Robinson R‑22 that are used for the instrument training for the add‑on helicopter category and class rating at the commercial pilot certification level that is addressed in § 61.129(c)(3)(i)? Meaning the kind of instrument training where it does not require the filing of an IFR flight plan and flight is going to occur during daytime conditions.
"Answer: Ref. § 61.129(c)(3)(i)and § 91.205(b); The instruments and equipment for the kind of instrument training required for § 61.129(c)(3)(i) during daytime conditions may be as minimal as the instruments requirements of § 91.205(b) with a portable communication receiver, and a portable VOR navigation receiver or some other kind of navigation receiver in the aircraft. As an example, if the training was given in a helicopter, the instrument and equipment requirements may be as a minimum: an airspeed indicator, altimeter, magnetic compass, a portable communication receiver, and a portable navigation receiver."
And the above puzzles even me: how are they going to keep the helicopter right side up if they don't have even a TI/TC for a gyro? Supernatural aid?
