Instructor shortage - advanced training
Thread Starter
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
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From: Bournemouth
Instructor shortage - advanced training
Ok, so there's been a bit of talk on these forums about the instructor shortage, removing the need for a CPL to get paid for instructing, and so on. PPL instructors and schools will no doubt be following the debate closely, and there are several ideas and thoughts being banded around.....
But what about advanced training - ME, CPL, IR? The bouyant airline job market means that very few instructors are sticking around long enough to gain the necessary qualifications for these roles. I know of several schools who are looking for good, full-time experienced, well-qualified instructors, but there are none around.
Instructing at this level is a viable career. Salaries may not match those of a long-haul captain, but they certainly rival FO salaries, and are probably universally better than initial salaries for new FOs. Plus the hours are more sociable, and the work is, arguably, more interesting!
I can think of a few possible places full-time instructors can come from:
- Airline pilot wannabe PPL instructor. How can we convince PPL instructors to remain in instruction, rather than taking the first airline job that comes along?
- Current air-taxi, etc, pilots with MEP experience would have plenty of relevant experience to pass on to students, although their lack of instructing time would prevent them from teaching CPL courses initially. How can we attract these experienced pilots into instructing?
- Airline pilots have lots of experience to pass on to wannabe airline pilots, although their experience is not immediately quite so relevant to the instructing we're talking about as a current MEP pilot.
So how do we get the message through to these people that there is a career in instructing? Are there other avenues I haven't thought of???
FFF
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But what about advanced training - ME, CPL, IR? The bouyant airline job market means that very few instructors are sticking around long enough to gain the necessary qualifications for these roles. I know of several schools who are looking for good, full-time experienced, well-qualified instructors, but there are none around.
Instructing at this level is a viable career. Salaries may not match those of a long-haul captain, but they certainly rival FO salaries, and are probably universally better than initial salaries for new FOs. Plus the hours are more sociable, and the work is, arguably, more interesting!
I can think of a few possible places full-time instructors can come from:
- Airline pilot wannabe PPL instructor. How can we convince PPL instructors to remain in instruction, rather than taking the first airline job that comes along?
- Current air-taxi, etc, pilots with MEP experience would have plenty of relevant experience to pass on to students, although their lack of instructing time would prevent them from teaching CPL courses initially. How can we attract these experienced pilots into instructing?
- Airline pilots have lots of experience to pass on to wannabe airline pilots, although their experience is not immediately quite so relevant to the instructing we're talking about as a current MEP pilot.
So how do we get the message through to these people that there is a career in instructing? Are there other avenues I haven't thought of???
FFF
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 591
Likes: 36
From: The middle
FFF
Sad fact of life, best salary for a career CPL/IR/FIC instructor is about £45k having spent lots of time building up from FI(r) etc and paid for CPL and IR plus the instructor rating.
Alternatively, if you can't go straight to the RHS of a shiny jet with 250 hrs and fatpl, then £18 - 26 k as turbo prop F/O, then £45k ish as boeingbus F/O then £80k plus as boeingbus captain with 3000 hrs and 4 - 5 years after finishing fatpl if they are in the right place at the right time.
I've held an instructor rating and flown professionally for 22 years and would liked nothing better than to instruct full time, preferably in something like a stampe or tiger moth from a grass strip. But if I was to leave the LHS of my boeingbus to do so Mrs excrab would probably go berserk, especially when we couldn't pay the mortgage.
In the good old days before low cost travel, airline pilots retired at 55 and then taught CPL/IR/FIC as a hobby - I did my AFI rating in 1985 with a chap who had done his initial instructor course at CFS in 1947. Nowdays FIC instructors have 1500hrs. Sadly I don't know the answer to your question - the job market has changed so much in the last few years that retaining instructors for professional training may always be a problem. PPL instructors will not help as they will only be able to teach (presumably) for PPl or associated ratings.
Sad fact of life, best salary for a career CPL/IR/FIC instructor is about £45k having spent lots of time building up from FI(r) etc and paid for CPL and IR plus the instructor rating.
Alternatively, if you can't go straight to the RHS of a shiny jet with 250 hrs and fatpl, then £18 - 26 k as turbo prop F/O, then £45k ish as boeingbus F/O then £80k plus as boeingbus captain with 3000 hrs and 4 - 5 years after finishing fatpl if they are in the right place at the right time.
I've held an instructor rating and flown professionally for 22 years and would liked nothing better than to instruct full time, preferably in something like a stampe or tiger moth from a grass strip. But if I was to leave the LHS of my boeingbus to do so Mrs excrab would probably go berserk, especially when we couldn't pay the mortgage.
In the good old days before low cost travel, airline pilots retired at 55 and then taught CPL/IR/FIC as a hobby - I did my AFI rating in 1985 with a chap who had done his initial instructor course at CFS in 1947. Nowdays FIC instructors have 1500hrs. Sadly I don't know the answer to your question - the job market has changed so much in the last few years that retaining instructors for professional training may always be a problem. PPL instructors will not help as they will only be able to teach (presumably) for PPl or associated ratings.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: Derbyshire
I want to be an instructor.
I am 51 , sick to death of people complaining their computer doesnt work or the network is slow and a million other daily complaints.
Recently I met someone who wants to have a boat in the med and her own aircraft to get her to it and offered to cover the cost of my flying training(1984 since i last attempted my ppl). So when I am not taking her on her boat I think being a flying instructor would be a perfect way to work for a living.
Questions?. apart from the training I need to get up to flying her B200 wHAT WILL IT COST ME TO BECOME A QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR AND THEN WHERE DO i LOOK FOR WORK?
Recently I met someone who wants to have a boat in the med and her own aircraft to get her to it and offered to cover the cost of my flying training(1984 since i last attempted my ppl). So when I am not taking her on her boat I think being a flying instructor would be a perfect way to work for a living.
Questions?. apart from the training I need to get up to flying her B200 wHAT WILL IT COST ME TO BECOME A QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR AND THEN WHERE DO i LOOK FOR WORK?
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: UK
You would have thought that the FTO's would want to select and train up their own CPL/MEIR/FIC FI's and then bond them for a period of time to guarantee the investment.
A 2nd career wannabe with a FATPL whose age is wrong side of 40 would be ideal - a bit older which would help with the teaching, and not particularly attractive to an airline so they won't jump ship for a jet job.
A 2nd career wannabe with a FATPL whose age is wrong side of 40 would be ideal - a bit older which would help with the teaching, and not particularly attractive to an airline so they won't jump ship for a jet job.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,130
Likes: 17
From: U.K.
Because of the pathetic salaries, there is no reason for people to start instructing. Yes, eventually you can make it pay, but after spending all that money on training to get a CPL or I/R, it isn't much of a reward to be earning stuff all for a few years to build up the requisite experience.
Mind you, with the low level of experience now being acceptable for CPL instruction, this may change.
MOst people get into flying ecause they want to fly big jets, very few start because they want to fly light aircraft. They are seen as a stepping stone and always will be for the majority of CPL students.
Unless instructing pays far better than airline flying, then there is no reason for the majority to stay and even then most would take a pay cut if an airline came knocking.
I'm afraid this is an almost impossible situation, whilst there are always sensible people who realise that airline flying can be the most boring job in the world, most airline wannabees get into flying not for the love of it, but for the perceived "status", so shiny jets and flash uniforms will always win out.
They may change their tune after a few years, but that doesn't help the situation as by then, they are stuck with mortgages and responsibilities and can't afford the pay cut.
Mind you, with the low level of experience now being acceptable for CPL instruction, this may change.
MOst people get into flying ecause they want to fly big jets, very few start because they want to fly light aircraft. They are seen as a stepping stone and always will be for the majority of CPL students.
Unless instructing pays far better than airline flying, then there is no reason for the majority to stay and even then most would take a pay cut if an airline came knocking.
I'm afraid this is an almost impossible situation, whilst there are always sensible people who realise that airline flying can be the most boring job in the world, most airline wannabees get into flying not for the love of it, but for the perceived "status", so shiny jets and flash uniforms will always win out.
They may change their tune after a few years, but that doesn't help the situation as by then, they are stuck with mortgages and responsibilities and can't afford the pay cut.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: XXX
I am young and I am going to do the FIC soon, (I got a CPL/IR) because I think I will like to teach a while but to build up my hours too...
My goal is to be an airline pilot so I know that one day I will leave the instruction a while. My little dream is to be a SFI in a company...
My goal is to be an airline pilot so I know that one day I will leave the instruction a while. My little dream is to be a SFI in a company...
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,689
Likes: 0
From: England
I will tell you straight exactly what puts me off the idea of IR/MEP instruction and that's the cost to me! Sure, I can envisage a day when PPL instructing simply doesn't cut it for me anymore and an airline job becomes the only possible way of arousing my ambition to fly once more. But if advanced schools are that desperate I think they might start looking at ways of financing instructors to upgrade... if it's that much of an issue for them.... I might be more interested in doing that than the airline gig but not if it's at more cost to myself again.
VFE.
VFE.
Last edited by VFE; 25th January 2008 at 19:29.
