Tough flight instructor!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 46
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From: canada
Tough flight instructor!!
I am as you say somewhere in the middle of my flight instructor course. I currently am training with another fellow that also wants his flight instructor rating. The flight instructor that we have teaching us is a very mature and very experienced (10,000 plus hours) and is also highly respected in the aviation community.
We begun our flight instructor course in the summer of 2007 and so far we have half of the flight time and most of the ground time put in due to his schedule always conducting flight tests for other students at other airports and going away.
He wants us to use the proper lexicon or wording when we teach and is tough on that, not alot of praise whether we do good work and the other fellow pilot that is doing the same course with me is always unprepared and not ready for the most part for our lessons.
Any suggestions?
thanks
We begun our flight instructor course in the summer of 2007 and so far we have half of the flight time and most of the ground time put in due to his schedule always conducting flight tests for other students at other airports and going away.
He wants us to use the proper lexicon or wording when we teach and is tough on that, not alot of praise whether we do good work and the other fellow pilot that is doing the same course with me is always unprepared and not ready for the most part for our lessons.
Any suggestions?
thanks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Saaaaaaffffhampton
Being a good pilot and able to teach are two different things!!
Questions to ask: is it the same for everyone? are you happy with your service? have you mentioned to the school CFI?
If not move to another school
Questions to ask: is it the same for everyone? are you happy with your service? have you mentioned to the school CFI?
If not move to another school
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: heathrow
You are paying a lot of money for this course.
1. Your instructor should not be spending too much time doing other things, you need as much continuity as possible.
2. It is the correct end result you need to achieve, the wording does not have to be exactly the same as your instructor but it needs to be similar and in the same sequence.
3. If you are not happy with your instructor you need to take these issues up with him. Your evidence of lack of praise is the hallmark of a poor instructor unless you are not doing very well but even then encouragement is the alternative tool coupled with a bit of 'false' praise.
It is important to be comfortable and satisfied with the instruction you are receiving so do something about it, if no luck with the instructor talk to the CFI.
The upside of this is that you are learning how not to treat your own students--stick with it and good luck
1. Your instructor should not be spending too much time doing other things, you need as much continuity as possible.
2. It is the correct end result you need to achieve, the wording does not have to be exactly the same as your instructor but it needs to be similar and in the same sequence.
3. If you are not happy with your instructor you need to take these issues up with him. Your evidence of lack of praise is the hallmark of a poor instructor unless you are not doing very well but even then encouragement is the alternative tool coupled with a bit of 'false' praise.
It is important to be comfortable and satisfied with the instruction you are receiving so do something about it, if no luck with the instructor talk to the CFI.
The upside of this is that you are learning how not to treat your own students--stick with it and good luck
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
The upside of this is that you are learning how not to treat your own students
As for using exactly the right words, I would probably try to take on board as much as you can. One thing I struggled with on the FIC was, when pattering an exercise, trying to squeeze the words in quick enough to be able to get the point across before the demonstration had finished. My instructor was very hot on using particular phrases, which always turned out to be 1/4 length of my own phrases even if the meaning was the same!
Now I teach CPL and IR, I still use many of the phrases I learnt on my FIC, and I've added a few others of my own, but I still try to keep them as short as possible, just as I was taught to do on the FIC.
FFF
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 3
From: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
When you start instructing the real learning begins.
The wisest words I've EVER read on pprune
I didn't realise just how true this is until I actually started instructing. All I can see now is a VERY long path ahead of me. It's aleady a fascinating journey, though, I can't imagine I'll ever tire of it.
Physically, though, I do find it extremely draining, that's another surprise. I get home in the evenings after 4 or 5 1-hour details and just collapse. I guess that'll get easier as time progresses.
TheOddOne
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
I try and keep it simple....
Lower the nose....
Raise the nose....
Increase the bank...
Decrease the bank....
More rudder....
Less rudder...
Add power...
Reduce power....
The pretty one is mine....
Lower the nose....
Raise the nose....
Increase the bank...
Decrease the bank....
More rudder....
Less rudder...
Add power...
Reduce power....
The pretty one is mine....
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
if its any help i was told i was !!!!e from hour one and told i would be lucky to pass.
Come the test i was that knackard I reverted to diving instructor methods.
Passed with a hand shake for a debrief. And told later by my IR instructor that the examiner said I was a solid pass with no issues and the best that the instructor had given him in the last 2 years. Which just confirmed to me that the instructor was just an old bullying tosser. 5k for bugger all. I never used and never will use the pish that he wanted me to patter.
Come the test i was that knackard I reverted to diving instructor methods.
Passed with a hand shake for a debrief. And told later by my IR instructor that the examiner said I was a solid pass with no issues and the best that the instructor had given him in the last 2 years. Which just confirmed to me that the instructor was just an old bullying tosser. 5k for bugger all. I never used and never will use the pish that he wanted me to patter.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,669
Likes: 5
From: uk
I walked out of my first instructor course after only 3 days. I thought the Instructor course instructor was laying it on too heavy and being mega critical. He wanted perfection and appeared to want to show his knowledge and our lack thereof at every opportunity. I thought it was too much like hard work and not at all what I had expected. I ended up doing the course a couple of months later with another guy, much more relaxed and easy going.
The only problem I then had was that I struggled on the Instructor test as I wasn't fully up to standard and hadn't been taught the teaching/learning elements which would have helped.
I guess what i'm trying to say is you can go the easy route if you like but in the end, a knowledgable instructor will get you through the course and you'll probably be a better instructor for it.
I look back and wonder if i'd have survived his course but who knows.
You definitely need continuity on the course and he should put you first instead of doing tests etc. Discuss this with him and see if you could change to another instructor if available for that continuity.
As for him being a 10,000hr pilot. So what? Hours aren't everything. I know a guy who was an FIC instructor with 1500hrs and he was professional, knowledgeable instructor, very accurate in the air and had a fantastic manner when instructing. Horses for courses I guess.
Good luck and enjoy the course.
The only problem I then had was that I struggled on the Instructor test as I wasn't fully up to standard and hadn't been taught the teaching/learning elements which would have helped.
I guess what i'm trying to say is you can go the easy route if you like but in the end, a knowledgable instructor will get you through the course and you'll probably be a better instructor for it.
I look back and wonder if i'd have survived his course but who knows.
You definitely need continuity on the course and he should put you first instead of doing tests etc. Discuss this with him and see if you could change to another instructor if available for that continuity.
As for him being a 10,000hr pilot. So what? Hours aren't everything. I know a guy who was an FIC instructor with 1500hrs and he was professional, knowledgeable instructor, very accurate in the air and had a fantastic manner when instructing. Horses for courses I guess.
Good luck and enjoy the course.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,689
Likes: 0
From: England
Some interesting comments on this subject.
In the UK at least, FIC instructors tend to be CFI's/examiners in varying capacities henceforth are busy people - that's just the nature of their job and as a student you must be prepared to be a little flexible.
Everyone knows that a hard instructor will get the job done but may not be the most fun to fly with. As a customer it is your perogative which you chose to fly with and yes, if you are experiencing an FIC instructor who you may not be best suited to then it's a good lesson towards evaluating which kind of instructor you eventually wish to become.
Personally, I prefer to see my students enjoy their instructional flights and in doing so put them at ease which in turn leads to improved understanding. Other collegues around me prefer the strictly business approach and often halve their lesson time but my take is that the PPL is a recreational licence and the people paying money to aquire one wish to enjoy themselves (as well as being safe obviously).
For professional flying licences I think the strictly business approach is the way forward and students expect it more - I certainly did.
VFE.
In the UK at least, FIC instructors tend to be CFI's/examiners in varying capacities henceforth are busy people - that's just the nature of their job and as a student you must be prepared to be a little flexible.
Everyone knows that a hard instructor will get the job done but may not be the most fun to fly with. As a customer it is your perogative which you chose to fly with and yes, if you are experiencing an FIC instructor who you may not be best suited to then it's a good lesson towards evaluating which kind of instructor you eventually wish to become.
Personally, I prefer to see my students enjoy their instructional flights and in doing so put them at ease which in turn leads to improved understanding. Other collegues around me prefer the strictly business approach and often halve their lesson time but my take is that the PPL is a recreational licence and the people paying money to aquire one wish to enjoy themselves (as well as being safe obviously).
For professional flying licences I think the strictly business approach is the way forward and students expect it more - I certainly did.
VFE.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: heathrow
and the moral of the story?
when you are about to spend money on any service ask questions, find out how others have faired not just in a club/school but with a particular instructor.
A few weeks research is better than paying for and doing a course you are not enjoying.
when you are about to spend money on any service ask questions, find out how others have faired not just in a club/school but with a particular instructor.
A few weeks research is better than paying for and doing a course you are not enjoying.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,669
Likes: 5
From: uk
I am planning on renewing my instructors rating early next year if i get a chance, and yes, I do enjoy it. I wouldn't want to do it full time again as I found that I kept getting shafted by employers who didnt pay on time. Now I am salaried, I could instruct on a part time basis as and when I wanted which would be much more enjoyable.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 213
Likes: 1
From: West Britain
I've been instructing, full- and part-time for nearly 30 years. I'm still loving it and still learning. I was trained by a man who took the view that the trainee instructor was an average pilot who would give 100% throughout the course. He was a critical debriefer because that was what we were paying our money for. He was FFF - firm, fair and, occasionally fun - and I've done my best to emulate him ever since.
As far as debriefing goes, I have always used the sandwich approach. Start and finish with praise for the good aspects (there are always some) and stick the critical bits (there are always some) in the middle. THis holds good for all areas of flying instruction.
The day you stop enjoying it, stop doing it. Happily, for most of us, that day never comes.
As far as debriefing goes, I have always used the sandwich approach. Start and finish with praise for the good aspects (there are always some) and stick the critical bits (there are always some) in the middle. THis holds good for all areas of flying instruction.
The day you stop enjoying it, stop doing it. Happily, for most of us, that day never comes.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I started instructing part time, and loved it. Then for various reasons I switched to full time. I was dividing myself between two airfields, with long days, and a lot of travelling time. I was getting knackered by mid-summer, and the day I woke up on a day off and thought, "Thank god I don't have to fly today", was the day I realised something was going wrong. Then in the winter there was bad weather and no work, which equalled no money. 
I'm now back to part time. I love it again. I don't get so tired, I don't panic about paying the bills when the weather's bad, and I remember who my students are without having to get in early to read their notes.
I think I'll keep doing part time instructing for as long as I can pass medicals. But for me, fulltime meant that I turned my hobby into my job....and it became just another job.
I'm now back to part time. I love it again. I don't get so tired, I don't panic about paying the bills when the weather's bad, and I remember who my students are without having to get in early to read their notes.
I think I'll keep doing part time instructing for as long as I can pass medicals. But for me, fulltime meant that I turned my hobby into my job....and it became just another job.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
BristolScout,
My first thought when I read this was "Do I know you"?
My second thought was that it must be mistaken identity, because I wasn't around 30 years ago to train you! Then I saw:
and realised my mistake!!! 
FFF(!)
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I've been instructing, full- and part-time for nearly 30 years... I was trained by a man... He was FFF
My second thought was that it must be mistaken identity, because I wasn't around 30 years ago to train you! Then I saw:
firm, fair and, occasionally fun
FFF(!)
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