Pre-entry flight test with a FI
No, it is based upon the SEP LST but gives the FIC instructor the opportunity to determine what you can do well and what you might not do so well. The FIC Instructor has 30 hours to get you to be able to demonstrate something and provide patter at the same time so it is a measure of how much work he has to do and in some cases to say to the candidate go and get some more practice before you return. Whilst it is referred to as a test it is more an evaluation.
There is no point flying it from the right hand seat as you probably have not flown from there before and will not be at your best.
There is no point flying it from the right hand seat as you probably have not flown from there before and will not be at your best.
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There is at least one FIE who will make you take this test from the right hand seat, and in any case if your serious about instructing and want to make life easier for yourself you should get some handling time in the right hand seat
Last edited by athonite; 16th Aug 2007 at 08:16.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Any FIC instructor who makes a big deal about this "test" is up their own backside.
But that's just my opinion - I never did one.
Bang on!
VFE.
But that's just my opinion - I never did one.
It's a method of evaluating whether you have sufficient funds to meet the course' fees
VFE.
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When I conduct this test I am not really looking at how well you fly, but if you have weak areas, it flags up topics we may need to concentrate on during the course. I am looking for capacity - i.e. is your flying taking up so much of your concentration that you do not have the spare capacity to hold a conversation with your passenger (i.e. the student) whilst navigating and talking on the radio...your flying should be natural and relaxed so that you have time to teach. I am also listening to you to gauge your ability to communicate so if you waffle and blabber on rather that may mean my work is cut out!
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Your student will indicate if they feel they are lackin' in recent air experience. Not only that *chortle chortle* but their log book should be a hint too?
Why not have a cuppa tea in the club house, see if you like the 'candidate' or not, and then launch into a gentle rendition of Ex.1 of the FIC? See where they're at??
Club flying is losing it's place to money makers. There: Said it!
VFE.
Why not have a cuppa tea in the club house, see if you like the 'candidate' or not, and then launch into a gentle rendition of Ex.1 of the FIC? See where they're at??
Club flying is losing it's place to money makers. There: Said it!
VFE.
There is thread after thread asking when instructors are going to be paid properly!
FIC Instructing is one area where an instructor can charge a realistic price to reflect the experience and knowledge required but then they are accused of:
Cheap training is like cheap wine; you get to like it so much you can't recognise anything better.
FIC Instructing is one area where an instructor can charge a realistic price to reflect the experience and knowledge required but then they are accused of:
Club flying is losing it's place to money makers. There: Said it!
It's a method of evaluating whether you have sufficient funds to meet the course' fees.
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I don't mean to be accusative, Whopity. Just telling it like it is; or how I perceive it to be.
It's the system. Won't never change until the responsibility for selection is removed from the service' provider.
Flight examining is directly analagous, in that Club' examiners have a vested interest in their candidates passing. Examining should be independent of the schools, just like CAAFU......and arguments about increased cost just won't wash. You, yourself, just said that a person, "can't have something for nothing", to paraphrase.
It's the system. Won't never change until the responsibility for selection is removed from the service' provider.
Flight examining is directly analagous, in that Club' examiners have a vested interest in their candidates passing. Examining should be independent of the schools, just like CAAFU......and arguments about increased cost just won't wash. You, yourself, just said that a person, "can't have something for nothing", to paraphrase.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Whopity,
Fee's for an FIC are fare (fare -geddit? heh heh!) enough and I do not begrudge a qualified FI getting paid commensurate with their level of expertise. I paid over the going rate for my FIC because I respected the FI who did my training. I never grumbled. I paid £200 cash for my FIC test with nary so much as a flinch (indeed gave the examiner a bottle of wine too) because they were brilliant with me...
No, the problem comes (and it's as much an embarrassment really!) when FI's start doing things by the letter of the law (ie; pre-entry flight test) simply because it's a way of getting a few quid out of the already street-wise (don't forget they've been thru a fair bit of flight training already!) candidate or because they cannot interprete the rules accordingly. Either/or - it's a worry and a turn off for me personally.
This issue is usually spawned by spurious offers of employment on completetion of FIC. Short and curlies spring to mind. Do not try and make me think otherwise because you and I both know that what I say is true so quit the act.
VFE.
Fee's for an FIC are fare (fare -geddit? heh heh!) enough and I do not begrudge a qualified FI getting paid commensurate with their level of expertise. I paid over the going rate for my FIC because I respected the FI who did my training. I never grumbled. I paid £200 cash for my FIC test with nary so much as a flinch (indeed gave the examiner a bottle of wine too) because they were brilliant with me...
No, the problem comes (and it's as much an embarrassment really!) when FI's start doing things by the letter of the law (ie; pre-entry flight test) simply because it's a way of getting a few quid out of the already street-wise (don't forget they've been thru a fair bit of flight training already!) candidate or because they cannot interprete the rules accordingly. Either/or - it's a worry and a turn off for me personally.
This issue is usually spawned by spurious offers of employment on completetion of FIC. Short and curlies spring to mind. Do not try and make me think otherwise because you and I both know that what I say is true so quit the act.
VFE.
There have been cases of the CAA refusing to issue an FI rating because the candidate has no evidence of a pre-entry flight test. At that point it gets a little daft but its not an option it is a mandatory requirement. You are probably lucky that they issued your rating, I'll bet the FIC instructor got a kick for it.
If you had conducted any FI training you would know that not all CPL/IR holders are suitable candidates to become instructors, so you need to know what you are taking on before you start; its better to turn someone away at the beginning than halfway through a course. Just because you passed your CPL skill test yesterday doesn't guarantee you are suitable to do an FI course tomorrow. No FIC instructor is going to waste their time taking on unsuitable candidates. The Pre-entry test is an essential precursor to an FI course and to suggest that its a way of making more money is totally naive.
The examination of FI candidates is independent, the FIE who conducts the test cannot have conducted any of the training. FIEs work for themselves not a school. CAAFU has not existed for over 14 years!
If you had conducted any FI training you would know that not all CPL/IR holders are suitable candidates to become instructors, so you need to know what you are taking on before you start; its better to turn someone away at the beginning than halfway through a course. Just because you passed your CPL skill test yesterday doesn't guarantee you are suitable to do an FI course tomorrow. No FIC instructor is going to waste their time taking on unsuitable candidates. The Pre-entry test is an essential precursor to an FI course and to suggest that its a way of making more money is totally naive.
The examination of FI candidates is independent, the FIE who conducts the test cannot have conducted any of the training. FIEs work for themselves not a school. CAAFU has not existed for over 14 years!
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All very interesting. I would not take on someone just because they were recommended to me by a previous student. I assess people's potential based on what I see when they come to meet me. I do not advertise but I am always booked up several months in advance because I have a good reputation for providing a thorough and good quality course. It is not cheap but I do try to save money for my students by being fair. If you want a cheap course with no hard work my course is not for you. If you want to be guaranteed employment because all my students get jobs before they finish the course then it is worth talking to me. But you will not be guaranteed to get on my course.
I'm not a FIC instructor - I simply do not have enough time to become one. But I do fly with all FIs who wish to instruct for us - and yes, at the Club's expense for those who think it's a way of prising money out of hours builders.
Personally, I would like to see the pre-entry flight test used to confirm that the applicant has adequate flying skills and spare capacity to fly a SEP aeroplane safely whilst conducting flight training and that the applicant has suitable interpersonal skills to become a FI.
Personally, I would like to see the pre-entry flight test used to confirm that the applicant has adequate flying skills and spare capacity to fly a SEP aeroplane safely whilst conducting flight training and that the applicant has suitable interpersonal skills to become a FI.
