Briefing passengers/evacuation
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Briefing passengers/evacuation
Hi Guys,
I'm not an instructor so I'm kinda hoping that Mr Pprune will bear with me on this one!
I'm currently flying a PA28..
My question is about passenger briefing. I always try but I'm never really sure how much or how little to tell them. Moreover, what exactly do you say..
Is there an officially recommended order of evacuation or do you just climb over any cold, dead corpse that gets in your way?
What about the poor back seaters in a forced landing situation...
I've never had to deal with a serious emergency and when/if it happens for the first time, I would really like to get it right and not let down the trusting souls that fly with me!!!!
Have any of you guys had a real emergency - did it work for you?
thanks in advance!!!!!
TSR22 (wanted TSR2 but pressed the button too many times..)
I'm not an instructor so I'm kinda hoping that Mr Pprune will bear with me on this one!
I'm currently flying a PA28..
My question is about passenger briefing. I always try but I'm never really sure how much or how little to tell them. Moreover, what exactly do you say..
Is there an officially recommended order of evacuation or do you just climb over any cold, dead corpse that gets in your way?
What about the poor back seaters in a forced landing situation...
I've never had to deal with a serious emergency and when/if it happens for the first time, I would really like to get it right and not let down the trusting souls that fly with me!!!!
Have any of you guys had a real emergency - did it work for you?
thanks in advance!!!!!
TSR22 (wanted TSR2 but pressed the button too many times..)
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No, I've never had a real emergency of the kind you're talking about, but I'll have a go at answering the question, though.
It seems your main concern is evacuation, and the order in which to evacuate. I would suggest that it actually doesn't matter which order people evacuate in, so long as everyone knows what they are doing. So, decide on an order, stick to it, and brief it for every flight.
In the PA28, it's pretty obvious that the right-hand-seat pax will vacate first. Personally, I'd suggest that back-seat pax should vacate next, so that the captain can be the last one out and supervise the evacuation if necessary. But any other order which will work should be fine as long as it is briefed beforehand.
Remember this is not the only thing to cover in the brief. Make sure anyone sitting near a door knows how the door works, and everyone knows how the seatbelts work. Tell them where the first aid kit and fire extinguisher are, and what the brace position is for your aircraft type and their seating position.
For nervous pax, I always try to finish with a bit of a joke - otherwise it all seems a little scary. My favourite one is, when briefing on evacuation procedures, to tell the pax how to evacuate, move to the rear of the aircraft (away from the prop), and then find their way to the nearest pub and meet me there. I can very often tell from the response to this how nervous someone is, too.
FFF
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It seems your main concern is evacuation, and the order in which to evacuate. I would suggest that it actually doesn't matter which order people evacuate in, so long as everyone knows what they are doing. So, decide on an order, stick to it, and brief it for every flight.
In the PA28, it's pretty obvious that the right-hand-seat pax will vacate first. Personally, I'd suggest that back-seat pax should vacate next, so that the captain can be the last one out and supervise the evacuation if necessary. But any other order which will work should be fine as long as it is briefed beforehand.
Remember this is not the only thing to cover in the brief. Make sure anyone sitting near a door knows how the door works, and everyone knows how the seatbelts work. Tell them where the first aid kit and fire extinguisher are, and what the brace position is for your aircraft type and their seating position.
For nervous pax, I always try to finish with a bit of a joke - otherwise it all seems a little scary. My favourite one is, when briefing on evacuation procedures, to tell the pax how to evacuate, move to the rear of the aircraft (away from the prop), and then find their way to the nearest pub and meet me there. I can very often tell from the response to this how nervous someone is, too.
FFF
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TSR 22 - check sheet
it's good that you take this seriously.
I would suggest doing a little check sheet to remind you of what to go through.
You will get some good responses from people on this thread so use what of it you will.
Remember not just to include emergencies. Some of the people you take flying may be a little nervous etc.
So go through from the start of the flight;i.e.
1. Keep feet away from rudders for take off and landing.
2.The 'i have control' etc. if you are going to give them a go.
3. MAKE sure, they tell you IMMEDIATELY if they feel ill (I have had a bunch of vomit'ers lately). Carry sick bags.
4. Show them where air vents are, how they work and that they are welcome to use them.
You may already do some of this stuff, so sorry to harp on.
There is obviously more to the list above so use what you feel is appropriate to you and your pax'ers.
JTK
I would suggest doing a little check sheet to remind you of what to go through.
You will get some good responses from people on this thread so use what of it you will.
Remember not just to include emergencies. Some of the people you take flying may be a little nervous etc.
So go through from the start of the flight;i.e.
1. Keep feet away from rudders for take off and landing.
2.The 'i have control' etc. if you are going to give them a go.
3. MAKE sure, they tell you IMMEDIATELY if they feel ill (I have had a bunch of vomit'ers lately). Carry sick bags.
4. Show them where air vents are, how they work and that they are welcome to use them.
You may already do some of this stuff, so sorry to harp on.
There is obviously more to the list above so use what you feel is appropriate to you and your pax'ers.
JTK
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Did you read the safety sense leaflet of the CAA about this? Very useful stuff in there.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1157
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1157
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When you have a mega busy schedule you have to be brief with the erm.. brief!
The points I make clear are;
How to open door/ canopy, release seatbelt
Location of First Aid and Fire Extinguisher
Positive exchange of Fl. Controls!!!!!
Air Vents and importance of comfort
Let me know if you feel ill (sick bags to hand, the results of not having one aren't worth thinking about!!!!)
evacuation is not something I cover but it would make sense for front followed by back pax in a pa28 unless there is someone less abled in the front. In that case Forget them and save yourself (joke)
The points I make clear are;
How to open door/ canopy, release seatbelt
Location of First Aid and Fire Extinguisher
Positive exchange of Fl. Controls!!!!!
Air Vents and importance of comfort
Let me know if you feel ill (sick bags to hand, the results of not having one aren't worth thinking about!!!!)
evacuation is not something I cover but it would make sense for front followed by back pax in a pa28 unless there is someone less abled in the front. In that case Forget them and save yourself (joke)
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I agree with what has been said so far and would go along with FFFs "finish with a joke. I would also start with something along the lines of " I am sure you wont need it, but the CAA want me to tell you this and it is good for you to know, just in case"
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Hi Guys!
Thanks for the information
- I looked at the CAA leaflet - it's quite comprehensive but doesn't mention the joke bit!!!!!
I nearly always fly with passengers - since I'm hours building, I figure that I may as well give people the opportunity to do something unusual!
I wonder if it would be worth making a laminated, colourful safety sheet - a bit like in the airlines but easier to understand!
I usually do start with the "its not going to happen, but I legally have to tell you..." I also, usually, tell them about the careful servicing and inspection regime - to let them know that aeroplanes simply do not break. It seems to work but after reading the leaflet, I realise that I miss out some vital things such as how to fold the front seat to get out..
I have, of course, seen a few briefings done by other people. Usually something along the lines of "dont touch nuffink"
Maybe I'm going a bit over the top with all of this!!!
Thanks for the information
- I looked at the CAA leaflet - it's quite comprehensive but doesn't mention the joke bit!!!!! I nearly always fly with passengers - since I'm hours building, I figure that I may as well give people the opportunity to do something unusual!
I wonder if it would be worth making a laminated, colourful safety sheet - a bit like in the airlines but easier to understand!
I usually do start with the "its not going to happen, but I legally have to tell you..." I also, usually, tell them about the careful servicing and inspection regime - to let them know that aeroplanes simply do not break. It seems to work but after reading the leaflet, I realise that I miss out some vital things such as how to fold the front seat to get out..
I have, of course, seen a few briefings done by other people. Usually something along the lines of "dont touch nuffink"
Maybe I'm going a bit over the top with all of this!!!
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I don't do a safety brief per se, but I help the people get into the aircraft, strap themselves in etc., and as I help them, I cover the related safety items. Makes it rather natural.
So once they are seated, I help them put on and adjust the seatbelt, but also tell them how to undo it. When I close the door(s), I tell them how to open it, including the safety hinge release in the rear door. When I help them put on the headset, I tell them how to adjust the microphone, and to keep quiet when I'm busy. When I do the full&free control checks, I warn the passenger that this is the range of travel and they should not interfere with that. And so forth.
That means the only safety item I have to tell them separately is to keep their eyes outside and warn me of any traffic that they see. And warn me if they feel sick.
It works but I'm not entirely happy with it though. If there would be a half-decent safety card available somewhere, I'd probably use that to go over the highlights with them. Problem is, they've got to be aircraft specific to a large extent. Maybe I'll write a simple checklist for myself one day.
So once they are seated, I help them put on and adjust the seatbelt, but also tell them how to undo it. When I close the door(s), I tell them how to open it, including the safety hinge release in the rear door. When I help them put on the headset, I tell them how to adjust the microphone, and to keep quiet when I'm busy. When I do the full&free control checks, I warn the passenger that this is the range of travel and they should not interfere with that. And so forth.
That means the only safety item I have to tell them separately is to keep their eyes outside and warn me of any traffic that they see. And warn me if they feel sick.
It works but I'm not entirely happy with it though. If there would be a half-decent safety card available somewhere, I'd probably use that to go over the highlights with them. Problem is, they've got to be aircraft specific to a large extent. Maybe I'll write a simple checklist for myself one day.
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Hi Backpacker!
Your method sounds very sensible - kind of briefing without pax being aware of it, so to speak! I guess that a formal briefing could worry passengers more. On the other hand, it looks professional and could reassure them.
I dont know which way to go with it. I guess your method, combined with a safety card may work well - with a "any questions?" bit before moving on through the checks.
I've got some for a sightseeing trip on Monday - I'll try that method and, once we have landed, I'll ask them to see if they felt "briefed"!!!!!!!
Your method sounds very sensible - kind of briefing without pax being aware of it, so to speak! I guess that a formal briefing could worry passengers more. On the other hand, it looks professional and could reassure them.
I dont know which way to go with it. I guess your method, combined with a safety card may work well - with a "any questions?" bit before moving on through the checks.
I've got some for a sightseeing trip on Monday - I'll try that method and, once we have landed, I'll ask them to see if they felt "briefed"!!!!!!!
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Like most here I don't really see any point in making a meal of it - it's pretty obvious where and how you should evacuate a light aircraft such as a Cessna or Warrior when strapping the thing to your backside:
"To release the seatbelt lift this lever..."
"To get out the aircraft use this/that door..."
"If we need to get out in a hurry then vacate the aircraft running in that direction (point to rear)....."
"Follow through on the controls as discussed in the briefing room but do not interfere with the inputs I make"
"Keep your heels on the floor and your toes away from the brakes otherwise we'll have a game when it comes to accelerating down the runway"
"Any questions? No? Good. Smile then, you're going to enjoy this!"
VFE.
"To release the seatbelt lift this lever..."
"To get out the aircraft use this/that door..."
"If we need to get out in a hurry then vacate the aircraft running in that direction (point to rear)....."
"Follow through on the controls as discussed in the briefing room but do not interfere with the inputs I make"
"Keep your heels on the floor and your toes away from the brakes otherwise we'll have a game when it comes to accelerating down the runway"
"Any questions? No? Good. Smile then, you're going to enjoy this!"
VFE.
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TSR22
Check with the insurer of the aircraft or the insurer of the company that owns the aircraft. They may have a specific set of instructions or waivers that they want passengers to sign. If you choose to use the insurer's format then you can also have a good chuckle when you go through it with the passengers.
I used to keep the forms in a sick bag marked boldly CYICA. Explaining Cover Your Insurance Company's Axx to some passengers, especially the younger ones always lightened things up, but got the point across. Proper pronunciation of CYICA is Sicka.
Check with the insurer of the aircraft or the insurer of the company that owns the aircraft. They may have a specific set of instructions or waivers that they want passengers to sign. If you choose to use the insurer's format then you can also have a good chuckle when you go through it with the passengers.
I used to keep the forms in a sick bag marked boldly CYICA. Explaining Cover Your Insurance Company's Axx to some passengers, especially the younger ones always lightened things up, but got the point across. Proper pronunciation of CYICA is Sicka.
Oh dear. Another pilot who thinks that the humble PA28 is some sort of airliner.... Symptomatic of Bliar's nanny-state culture, I guess...
Just give the same brief you give to people who travel in your car..... You do give one, don't you.............
Alternatively, just say "If anything goes wrong, get out when I tell you!".
If your passengers are too dim to understand that, I suggest you fly solo!
Just give the same brief you give to people who travel in your car..... You do give one, don't you.............
Alternatively, just say "If anything goes wrong, get out when I tell you!".
If your passengers are too dim to understand that, I suggest you fly solo!
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BEagle
That is a really arrogant statement to make.
As an instructor you should be encouraging less qualified and experienced pilots to ensure that they have a safe flight and their pax's have a basic knowledge of the aircraft.
Why should a pax on an airliner have a safety brief and a pax in a light aircraft (which they probably have never been in before) not.
Try being a little more professional and stop trying to score childish points against someone who 'just wanted a bit of constructive advice'
As an instructor you should be encouraging less qualified and experienced pilots to ensure that they have a safe flight and their pax's have a basic knowledge of the aircraft.
Why should a pax on an airliner have a safety brief and a pax in a light aircraft (which they probably have never been in before) not.
Try being a little more professional and stop trying to score childish points against someone who 'just wanted a bit of constructive advice'
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We used to run a pleasure flying operation with a Warrior and Archer and were not only required to give a safety briefing, but prepare cards (a la airlines) to be visible from the seat pockets.
The significant points have been covered elsewhere in this thread but the two things that particularly stick in my mind from our ops manual was the fact that most light aircraft doors are double latched - not obvious in the event of an emergency ... and on exiting remain behind the wings at all times. (props)
The memory has started to fade a bit, but I think it was also in the School Flying Order book that self fly hire customers should give their pax a safety briefing.
The RAF saw fit to brief me prior to my first air experience flight with the CCF... For what it's worth I think a prepared briefing is to be encouraged.
The significant points have been covered elsewhere in this thread but the two things that particularly stick in my mind from our ops manual was the fact that most light aircraft doors are double latched - not obvious in the event of an emergency ... and on exiting remain behind the wings at all times. (props)
The memory has started to fade a bit, but I think it was also in the School Flying Order book that self fly hire customers should give their pax a safety briefing.
The RAF saw fit to brief me prior to my first air experience flight with the CCF... For what it's worth I think a prepared briefing is to be encouraged.
I think I know where Beagle is coming from so don't be too harsh on him! Perhaps he is saying just use commone sense to brief your passengers rather than getting too formal and asking them to read the safety instructions card.
Slightly off thread but it reminds me of a conversation between two captains I heard in the crew bus as a young second officer with a Big Airline just after the accident report had been published for a B707 at LHR that had an engine fire having taken off on 28R and landed on 05, they were only airborne for a few minutes. One them remarked that he couldnt understand how they managed to do the after take off checks, the descent checks, approach checks and landing checks in such a short period of time. A voice from the back of the bus shouted "Gear and Flaps - do you need anything else!?"
Slightly off thread but it reminds me of a conversation between two captains I heard in the crew bus as a young second officer with a Big Airline just after the accident report had been published for a B707 at LHR that had an engine fire having taken off on 28R and landed on 05, they were only airborne for a few minutes. One them remarked that he couldnt understand how they managed to do the after take off checks, the descent checks, approach checks and landing checks in such a short period of time. A voice from the back of the bus shouted "Gear and Flaps - do you need anything else!?"
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I took a Mummy with hands that do dishes, a Daddy who literally had sweat pouring from his pits onto his sweaty trousers the whole flight and oh.... their 6 year old daughter for a trial lesson in a PA-28 today. BEagles flippant attitude would be boardering on the foolhardy/ downright negligent should an emergency have occured which, let's face it, remains vastly higher in probability when sat in a lowly PA28 than a Jumbo these days.
Nervous people are already vulnerable around light aircraft, but throw in an emergency without some softly packaged solid advice prior to engine start and well..... I don't want to consider the consequences! And I am refering to your conscience, not just the insurance and possible legal implications here. Rather suprised at your posting there BEagle - I can only presume you were annoyed by the development of the lawsuit culture being the catalyst for this thread. I do not doubt that you can still remember just how nervous, or lacking in knowledge and confidence some trial lesson punters are.... especially 6 year old girls with their mummy's.
Seat belt release, door opening technique and direction of evacation (towards the rear) covers it though.
VFE.
Nervous people are already vulnerable around light aircraft, but throw in an emergency without some softly packaged solid advice prior to engine start and well..... I don't want to consider the consequences! And I am refering to your conscience, not just the insurance and possible legal implications here. Rather suprised at your posting there BEagle - I can only presume you were annoyed by the development of the lawsuit culture being the catalyst for this thread. I do not doubt that you can still remember just how nervous, or lacking in knowledge and confidence some trial lesson punters are.... especially 6 year old girls with their mummy's.
Seat belt release, door opening technique and direction of evacation (towards the rear) covers it though.
VFE.
Last edited by VFE; 10th Apr 2007 at 20:24.
I disagree that there needs to be a formal briefing, this will just get people more nervous and if the proverbial hits the fan they won't remember it anyway. Like most things in life we're dealing with risk vs cost vs benefit; the risk is vanishingly small, the cost is that they will be more nervous and there's likely to be very little real benefit.
The simple solution is to show them how to undo the straps whilst helping them to strap in, and showing them how to open the door/canopy while shutting it for them - this can all be done without them realising they are being briefed. If you need to influence the evacuation sequence then this would be part of the pax brief during the forced landing process; as would the brace position. The pre-flight brief covers basic EoC, show them where the brake pedals are while getting them to taxi to the hold, if you get them to follow-through (or fly) the take-off you know where the hands and feet are.
The only difference is when they're wearing a parachute; they MUST then be briefed on when it might be used, how they will know to go (without relying on intercom), how to evacuate and deploy, and the basics of how to land.
It's really very simple, keep it that way.
HFD
The simple solution is to show them how to undo the straps whilst helping them to strap in, and showing them how to open the door/canopy while shutting it for them - this can all be done without them realising they are being briefed. If you need to influence the evacuation sequence then this would be part of the pax brief during the forced landing process; as would the brace position. The pre-flight brief covers basic EoC, show them where the brake pedals are while getting them to taxi to the hold, if you get them to follow-through (or fly) the take-off you know where the hands and feet are.
The only difference is when they're wearing a parachute; they MUST then be briefed on when it might be used, how they will know to go (without relying on intercom), how to evacuate and deploy, and the basics of how to land.
It's really very simple, keep it that way.
HFD
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The simple solution is to show them how to undo the straps whilst helping them to strap in, and showing them how to open the door/canopy while shutting it for them - this can all be done without them realising they are being briefed.
VFE.
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Talking of lawsuits
A trial lesson? Where you could take Mummy Daddy and the kid? Sounds more like a pleasure flight to me. Are you sure that what you are doing is legal VFE?