Funny comments made by students
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During a PPL mock skills test it was time for the instrument section. However the other instructor was using the foggles so I had to improvise. In the otherwise lovely clear sky there was this one big cloud so popped him in there, his first taste of REAL IMC. Handed him the aircraft straight and level in TRIM and gave him control to do the bog standard 180 deg turn. Seconds later we are 10 deg nose up and 30 deg AOB. Speed now decaying RAPIDLY instead of taking control I just shouted DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!! Big mistake, we now pitch up more while sticking the aeroplane on its SIDE 
No time for the standard I have Control, just F
K and recovering before we stall spin with not enough height to recover after popping out of the cloud base!
His calm response was "That was some mess you got us in there"
Can see his point but, What a cheeky
No time for the standard I have Control, just FK and recovering before we stall spin with not enough height to recover after popping out of the cloud base!His calm response was "That was some mess you got us in there"
Can see his point but, What a cheeky
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there was this one big cloud so popped him in there, his first taste of REAL IMC. Handed him the aircraft .... Seconds later we are 10 deg nose up and 30 deg AOB. Speed now decaying RAPIDLY instead of taking control I just shouted DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!! Big mistake, we now pitch up more while sticking the aeroplane on its SIDE No time for the standard I have Control, just FK and recovering before we stall spin with not enough height to recover after popping out of the cloud base!
If not, then F
K I concur with your Student!!!! 
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During a PPL mock skills test it was time for the instrument section. However the other instructor was using the foggles so I had to improvise. In the otherwise lovely clear sky there was this one big cloud so popped him in there, his first taste of REAL IMC. Handed him the aircraft straight and level in TRIM and gave him control to do the bog standard 180 deg turn. Seconds later we are 10 deg nose up and 30 deg AOB. Speed now decaying RAPIDLY instead of taking control I just shouted DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!! Big mistake, we now pitch up more while sticking the aeroplane on its SIDE No time for the standard I have Control, just FK and recovering before we stall spin with not enough height to recover after popping out of the cloud base!
His calm response was "That was some mess you got us in there"
Can see his point but, What a cheeky
His calm response was "That was some mess you got us in there"
Can see his point but, What a cheeky
You obviously have stacks of instrument time in actual conditions, are completely confident in recovery techniques in nil visibility whilst possibly experiencing spatial disorientation, were working a radar service to ensure separation from other IFR traffic (which you were operating under at that time - remember, you cannot be VFR inside cloud!) and of course you have the 'No Applied Instrument' restriction removed from your FI(A) and are qualified to instruct for IMC/IR.
If not, then I hope the student wasn't charged for that portion of the lesson as you were PIC and not legally giving instruction at that point.
"One big cloud in an otherwise clear sky".
Sounds like a bloody big CU to me with potentially lots of turbulence.
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A fellow student with his instructor strayed into the TMA without clearance. Tower advices him:
TWR: S-PA, you have penetrated my TMA.
Stu: Penetrating your TMA, S-PA
Didn't think you had to read back that kind of clearance
TWR: S-PA, you have penetrated my TMA.
Stu: Penetrating your TMA, S-PA
Didn't think you had to read back that kind of clearance
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In the otherwise lovely clear sky there was this one big cloud so popped him in there, his first taste of REAL IMC.
The foggles and stuff are play-acting, there are just too many visual cues from lighting levels and so on even if you don't catch a glimpse of sky or ground out of the corner of your eye - flying in real IMC is, it seems to me, the only way to train people to stay alive in real IMC.
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There is NOTHING wrong with flying in IMC with a properly certified CFII when in class G airspace (FAA). Absolute must when teaching student IR.
I agree - when you place student in the actual IMC his/her behavior is completely different from the simulated IMC.
I agree - when you place student in the actual IMC his/her behavior is completely different from the simulated IMC.
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But surely you don't even have to go into cloud to be IMC.....
TOO
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From a now female instructor, but only gliding experience at the time on seeing the inside of a Pawnee...
"Cawh, how far do you have to spread your legs to get in to this one?" (referring to the rudder pedals for those who haven't seen inside a Pawnee
"Cawh, how far do you have to spread your legs to get in to this one?" (referring to the rudder pedals for those who haven't seen inside a Pawnee
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First, he needs to be properly qualified to do it, in current practice, and receiving the correct radar service
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Where does it state that you have to be receiving a radar service when IMC (or flying IFR)?
TOO
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If you wish to fly into cloud without radar cover, remember
I know that that is a 'contrived' situation, but as this is a Flying Instructors sub-forum I would hope that such generalities as 'must have radar cover to fly into cloud' and ' IMC equals being in solid cloud' would be better explained.
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It would appear that this has become a Battle of Wits... with one side un-armed.
I find that when I have no solid come-back to an argument, I defer to sarcasm, just so that I can have the last word. Does anyone else do this?
pilotmike you sound like a very grounded, sensible pilot and I would fly with you any day.
(oh haha just noticed my pun... not intentional )
OK here I am, mid atlantic, and oh my gosh - look out there is a cloud, and I have no radar cover. What should I do?
pilotmike you sound like a very grounded, sensible pilot and I would fly with you any day.
(oh haha just noticed my pun... not intentional
)
Last edited by kiwi chick; 6th Dec 2007 at 19:44. Reason: just noticed my clever pun!
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Kiwi chick
Hope you are not an instructor - I have made no comment on whether it is good airmanship or not to fly into cloud without a radar service. Indeed for some VFR flights a radar service would be good airmanship. My point is that too often statements are made that are incorrect and as instructors we should not be making them. If the post had said that some form of separation service from other traffic when IMC was good airmanship I would not have raised the issue.
There again one pilot's IMC is not always the same as another pilot's IMC -depending on your speed, type of aircraft and license restrictions - but then you already knew that.
Hope you are not an instructor - I have made no comment on whether it is good airmanship or not to fly into cloud without a radar service. Indeed for some VFR flights a radar service would be good airmanship. My point is that too often statements are made that are incorrect and as instructors we should not be making them. If the post had said that some form of separation service from other traffic when IMC was good airmanship I would not have raised the issue.
There again one pilot's IMC is not always the same as another pilot's IMC -depending on your speed, type of aircraft and license restrictions - but then you already knew that.
