SEP Re-validation 1hr instructor flight
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Originally Posted by Beagle
Who do you expect to host, manage and pay for some internet discussion forum?
Let me know if you'd like to do something.
Ian
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I hope the NPPL Steering Committee won't look a gift horse in the mouth. For GA as a whole, it's hard to see there's a downside - if the proposals and ANO amendments are clean and unambiguous, everyone can see they are, and 'applaud virtually', if 'fresh eyes' spot even minor possible ambiguities or potential problems in time, everyone wins.
How about taking it forward Beagle? There's no point in putting it to one particular NPPL member organisation and leaving out the others, it's a great opportunity for the whole committee to grasp and be 'simple but clever' with technology.
How about taking it forward Beagle? There's no point in putting it to one particular NPPL member organisation and leaving out the others, it's a great opportunity for the whole committee to grasp and be 'simple but clever' with technology.
For further information, please see http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265127 .
The formal CAA documents will shortly be viewable on the PLD website.
The formal CAA documents will shortly be viewable on the PLD website.
The formal proposals are now available at http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...8&groupid=1298
Anyone wishing to comment on these proposals (please note that only such comments will be considered) may do so to [email protected] .
The proposals are fully endorsed by the AOPA, BBGA, BGA, BMAA, GAPAN and PFA members of the NPPL P&SC.
Anyone wishing to comment on these proposals (please note that only such comments will be considered) may do so to [email protected] .
The proposals are fully endorsed by the AOPA, BBGA, BGA, BMAA, GAPAN and PFA members of the NPPL P&SC.
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Re Sep Revalidation
Hi Guys,
Just out of curiosity, to renew your SEP, if in the last 3 months before your SEP check flight, you complete an MEP IR renewal, in Europe, would this be ok to use as a flight, in your log book, with an instructor, or do you still need to do a 1 hour flight with an instructor in a single?
Read in LASORS that this maybe the case, but someone somewhere told me different, that if you did a proficiency check for an instrument or type rating, with a JAA examiner, this would count as your flight.
Thanks in advance
Just out of curiosity, to renew your SEP, if in the last 3 months before your SEP check flight, you complete an MEP IR renewal, in Europe, would this be ok to use as a flight, in your log book, with an instructor, or do you still need to do a 1 hour flight with an instructor in a single?
Read in LASORS that this maybe the case, but someone somewhere told me different, that if you did a proficiency check for an instrument or type rating, with a JAA examiner, this would count as your flight.
Thanks in advance
Last edited by moaty; 25th Mar 2007 at 12:14.
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On the specific proposal for the ANO changes, is anyone other than "yours-truly" paranoid enough to notice what happens if you look down the other end of the telescope?
If you knew that some European body like EASA which has EU directive powers which over-ride the UK ANO was likely in 2008 or 2009 to 'strike out' all fixed wing or helicopter licences which were not either JAA licences (to be renamed EASA licences) and NPPL (which would be further enhanced with VLA adjustments and renamed with some sort of european 'sports' tag), then you'd have a 'study' to find out how to change the ANO in 2007 to prepare for this future 'strike out' so that when it happened in 2008 or 2009, flying at all levels could continue with minimum disruption.
It's funny, but I feel such a 'study' to prepare the ANO of the possible termination of some licences would have to suggest ANO changes along the lines of those currently being proposed. Once you have the 2007 changes in with all sorts of ratings in all sorts of licences and all the non-ANO exemptions dispensed with, any law making body can then easily strike out any licence it choses without pulling out a brick which causes collapse - eg: why not, once these 2007 changes are in, terminate CAA licences, and tell the holders they MUST apply (administratively) by a certain date in 2008 or 2009 for the equivalent JAA licence or NPPL (suitable renamed) or they would not have a licence at all.
Now some might say 'good thing' - all those automatic IMC privileges of the CAA CPL go, and ALL microlighters would be forced onto the NPPL with 12 hour renewals including instructor flights, and all SEP PPLs would pay for a new licence every 5 years. Other would say 'bad thing' - all those automatic IMC privileges of the CAA CPL go, and ALL microlighters would be on the NPPL with 12 hour renewals including instructor flights, and all SEP PPLs would pay for a new licence every 5 years. Even better, done through EASA directive, the CAA could not be accused of withdrawing licences it had said originally were for 'life'.
Anyway, don't worry about it, it's obvously just my imagination being too active.
If you knew that some European body like EASA which has EU directive powers which over-ride the UK ANO was likely in 2008 or 2009 to 'strike out' all fixed wing or helicopter licences which were not either JAA licences (to be renamed EASA licences) and NPPL (which would be further enhanced with VLA adjustments and renamed with some sort of european 'sports' tag), then you'd have a 'study' to find out how to change the ANO in 2007 to prepare for this future 'strike out' so that when it happened in 2008 or 2009, flying at all levels could continue with minimum disruption.
It's funny, but I feel such a 'study' to prepare the ANO of the possible termination of some licences would have to suggest ANO changes along the lines of those currently being proposed. Once you have the 2007 changes in with all sorts of ratings in all sorts of licences and all the non-ANO exemptions dispensed with, any law making body can then easily strike out any licence it choses without pulling out a brick which causes collapse - eg: why not, once these 2007 changes are in, terminate CAA licences, and tell the holders they MUST apply (administratively) by a certain date in 2008 or 2009 for the equivalent JAA licence or NPPL (suitable renamed) or they would not have a licence at all.
Now some might say 'good thing' - all those automatic IMC privileges of the CAA CPL go, and ALL microlighters would be forced onto the NPPL with 12 hour renewals including instructor flights, and all SEP PPLs would pay for a new licence every 5 years. Other would say 'bad thing' - all those automatic IMC privileges of the CAA CPL go, and ALL microlighters would be on the NPPL with 12 hour renewals including instructor flights, and all SEP PPLs would pay for a new licence every 5 years. Even better, done through EASA directive, the CAA could not be accused of withdrawing licences it had said originally were for 'life'.
Anyway, don't worry about it, it's obvously just my imagination being too active.
I have recently read a statement from someone at EASA stating that 'all national licences will go over the next 3-5 years'.
I will not stand for such a thing unless the equivalent EASA licence is issued free of charge, with privileges restricted to whatever the previous UK licence privileges were. Thus a EASA CPL would be issued to a former R/BCPL holder but restricted to identical former privileges.
As for the proposed Light Aircraft Pilot Licence, it's now looking pretty good. Microlight extension to 600 kg VLA is mooted - but if they give that then the 12-in-24 and Σ 1 hour are hardly unreasonable in return.
I will not stand for such a thing unless the equivalent EASA licence is issued free of charge, with privileges restricted to whatever the previous UK licence privileges were. Thus a EASA CPL would be issued to a former R/BCPL holder but restricted to identical former privileges.
As for the proposed Light Aircraft Pilot Licence, it's now looking pretty good. Microlight extension to 600 kg VLA is mooted - but if they give that then the 12-in-24 and Σ 1 hour are hardly unreasonable in return.
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Bose/Beagle,
If you flew a 1hr flight with a FI, who is supposedly current and everything, and that FI signs your logbook and the revalidation slip in your license, then why does the CFI from the club be involved at all?
Or is this an additional club rule, that you need to be checked out on an aircraft by a club FI before you're allowed to fly club aircraft (possibly for insurance reasons), and that this club checkout happens to coincide with the official proficiency check?
I'm going to have to do my proficiency check for the first time, in a few months or so, so I'm curious how this works, or how it worked in your case and what the issues really were.
Oh, and too lazy to look it up in my books right now... Can the 1 hr flight be scheduled anywhere in the 12 months before expiry, or does it have to be in the last 3 months or so?
If you flew a 1hr flight with a FI, who is supposedly current and everything, and that FI signs your logbook and the revalidation slip in your license, then why does the CFI from the club be involved at all?
Or is this an additional club rule, that you need to be checked out on an aircraft by a club FI before you're allowed to fly club aircraft (possibly for insurance reasons), and that this club checkout happens to coincide with the official proficiency check?
I'm going to have to do my proficiency check for the first time, in a few months or so, so I'm curious how this works, or how it worked in your case and what the issues really were.
Oh, and too lazy to look it up in my books right now... Can the 1 hr flight be scheduled anywhere in the 12 months before expiry, or does it have to be in the last 3 months or so?
BackPacker, quite why anyone who states that they are "too lazy to look it up in my books " thinks that someone else should spoon-feed them with the answer is beyond me....
However,
"If you flew a 1hr flight with a FI, who is supposedly current and everything, and that FI signs your logbook and the revalidation slip in your license, then why does the CFI from the club be involved at all?"
The FI may conduct the training flight, however, only an authorised Flight Examiner (in the UK at any rate) may sign the Certificate of Revalidation in the licence. There is no requirement for any Club CFI or HoT to become involved.
"Or is this an additional club rule, that you need to be checked out on an aircraft by a club FI before you're allowed to fly club aircraft (possibly for insurance reasons), and that this club checkout happens to coincide with the official proficiency check?"
Again, nothing mandated, but that's a reasonable way of killing two birds with one stone.
"I'm going to have to do my proficiency check for the first time, in a few months or so, so I'm curious how this works, or how it worked in your case and what the issues really were."
Really very straightforward. Take-off, 15 minutes of VFR navigation, a couple of steep turns, a couple of stalls and an off-aerodrome practice forced landing. Then back home for a normal circuit, lo go-around, EFATO, flapless circuit and simulated aborted take-off.
The 1 hour training flight may be flown within the 12 months before expiry of the rating; the SEP revalidation LPC may be flown at any time. But if flown within the last 3 months of validity, the Rating validity will roll forwards 24 months from the date of expiry rather than from the date of the check.
However,
"If you flew a 1hr flight with a FI, who is supposedly current and everything, and that FI signs your logbook and the revalidation slip in your license, then why does the CFI from the club be involved at all?"
The FI may conduct the training flight, however, only an authorised Flight Examiner (in the UK at any rate) may sign the Certificate of Revalidation in the licence. There is no requirement for any Club CFI or HoT to become involved.
"Or is this an additional club rule, that you need to be checked out on an aircraft by a club FI before you're allowed to fly club aircraft (possibly for insurance reasons), and that this club checkout happens to coincide with the official proficiency check?"
Again, nothing mandated, but that's a reasonable way of killing two birds with one stone.
"I'm going to have to do my proficiency check for the first time, in a few months or so, so I'm curious how this works, or how it worked in your case and what the issues really were."
Really very straightforward. Take-off, 15 minutes of VFR navigation, a couple of steep turns, a couple of stalls and an off-aerodrome practice forced landing. Then back home for a normal circuit, lo go-around, EFATO, flapless circuit and simulated aborted take-off.
The 1 hour training flight may be flown within the 12 months before expiry of the rating; the SEP revalidation LPC may be flown at any time. But if flown within the last 3 months of validity, the Rating validity will roll forwards 24 months from the date of expiry rather than from the date of the check.
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I knew there was something funny about that three-month period. Not mandated but very useful to do it in the last three months... Thanks! And I have been checked out (by FIs) on a number of different aircraft in our club fleet, and each checkout looked remarkedly like a prof check... Nothing too daunting about that, fortunately.
On a more practical note - Assume I've done the one-hour flight and the FI is happy. I'm in the Netherlands flying on a CAA/JAA license. Do I specifically need a sign-off from a CAA FE, or is any JAA FE okay?
And after having gotten the signature, do I need to send anything to Gatwick? Or is that just for the five-year license reissue (and the continued funding of our beloved CAA)?
On a more practical note - Assume I've done the one-hour flight and the FI is happy. I'm in the Netherlands flying on a CAA/JAA license. Do I specifically need a sign-off from a CAA FE, or is any JAA FE okay?
And after having gotten the signature, do I need to send anything to Gatwick? Or is that just for the five-year license reissue (and the continued funding of our beloved CAA)?
Any JAA FE can sign you off but make sure they complete the paperwork and send it to Gatwick. No charges involved.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1119.PDF
and http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1157.pdf for the Examiner
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1119.PDF
and http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1157.pdf for the Examiner
