Payment for FIs Using Group Owned Aircraft
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Payment for FIs Using Group Owned Aircraft
Whilst looking up something else I chanced across a section in this document, Para 5.5.3, which states in essence that instructors cannot be paid to instruct on group owned aircraft.
5.5.3 It should be noted that this exception can only be relied upon if the only payments are those made within the group relating to the direct and annual costs of operation. No other payments can be made if it is wished to rely on this exemption. In particular, a member of the group cannot pay an instructor to train him in the group owned aircraft. (However, see AIC 7/2004 (White 94) which allows a joint owner to undertake flight tests and pilot licence renewal/revalidation flights.)
I know that our group aircraft is insured for any pilot having 100 hours TT or any instructional flight for group members so it appears that the insurers aren't aware of this.
We've just had our (PT CofA) aircraft avionics upgraded to FM Immune IFR fit in order that the remainder of the group can undertake IMC training.
Has anyone come across this or anything similar before?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/122/summar..._transport.pdf
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5.5.3 It should be noted that this exception can only be relied upon if the only payments are those made within the group relating to the direct and annual costs of operation. No other payments can be made if it is wished to rely on this exemption. In particular, a member of the group cannot pay an instructor to train him in the group owned aircraft. (However, see AIC 7/2004 (White 94) which allows a joint owner to undertake flight tests and pilot licence renewal/revalidation flights.)
I know that our group aircraft is insured for any pilot having 100 hours TT or any instructional flight for group members so it appears that the insurers aren't aware of this.
We've just had our (PT CofA) aircraft avionics upgraded to FM Immune IFR fit in order that the remainder of the group can undertake IMC training.
Has anyone come across this or anything similar before?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/122/summar..._transport.pdf
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That's what I thought........or a somewhat exclusive and appropriately charged pre and post flight briefing service. 
What is wrong with the legislators?
I mean, what is the difference between a privately owned aircraft with one owner and a privately owned aircraft with a number of owners?
Ooops, starting to go into soapbox mode!!
What is wrong with the legislators?
I mean, what is the difference between a privately owned aircraft with one owner and a privately owned aircraft with a number of owners?
Ooops, starting to go into soapbox mode!!
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Guy's there is a way to make sense of this
I think the suggestions so far are the easiest and best way to proceed but if the instructor fill's in a form and registers himself and your aircraft with CAA then he is now a "registered facility" and can instruct on the group owned public transport maintained aircraft.
I think the suggestions so far are the easiest and best way to proceed but if the instructor fill's in a form and registers himself and your aircraft with CAA then he is now a "registered facility" and can instruct on the group owned public transport maintained aircraft.
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I think you need to read 5.5.2 first, as it to this clause that 5.5.3 refers. The key bit is the underlined sentence in 5.5.2.
I read it as 5.5.2 - there is no requirement to maintain an a/c to Public Transport Aircraft Airworthiness Requirements (as long as the point in 5.5.2 are met), but 5.5.3 then notes that should you opt to not maintain to Public Transport AAR then training is not allowed for a Group owned a/c.
Similarly if an aircraft engine in a Public Transport Aircraft reaches TBO (or TBO + 20% if so agreed) then you need to replace/overhaul it, or opt to maintain it to the equivalent of Private Transport and therefore cannot use it for Group instruction.
I read it as 5.5.2 - there is no requirement to maintain an a/c to Public Transport Aircraft Airworthiness Requirements (as long as the point in 5.5.2 are met), but 5.5.3 then notes that should you opt to not maintain to Public Transport AAR then training is not allowed for a Group owned a/c.
Similarly if an aircraft engine in a Public Transport Aircraft reaches TBO (or TBO + 20% if so agreed) then you need to replace/overhaul it, or opt to maintain it to the equivalent of Private Transport and therefore cannot use it for Group instruction.
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I see what you mean.
Provided the a/c is maintained to PT standards then paid instruction is permitted, however, if advantage is taken of the exception to maintain a group owned a/c to such standards (rather to Pvt) then such remunerated instruction would not be permitted.
Clear as mud...bless 'em.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Provided the a/c is maintained to PT standards then paid instruction is permitted, however, if advantage is taken of the exception to maintain a group owned a/c to such standards (rather to Pvt) then such remunerated instruction would not be permitted.
Clear as mud...bless 'em.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Whilst looking up something else I chanced across a section in this document, Para 5.5.3, which states in essence that instructors cannot be paid to instruct on group owned aircraft.
We've just had our (PT CofA) aircraft avionics upgraded to FM Immune IFR fit in order that the remainder of the group can undertake IMC training
We've just had our (PT CofA) aircraft avionics upgraded to FM Immune IFR fit in order that the remainder of the group can undertake IMC training
Instructors cannot be paid to instruct, for the purpose of enabling a pilot to become qualified for the grant of a licence or to include or vary any rating, on group-owned aeroplanes that are not maintained to public transport airworthiness requirements.
AIC 48/2006 provides an exemption for remunerated flying instruction in group-owned aeroplanes not maintained to public transport requirements, but only where the pilot under training holds a licence entitling him/her to act as P.I.C., or which would so entitle them except that the licence does not bear a valid certificate of test, experience or revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to obtain such.
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True, but a new Exemption is normally issued annually (albeit sometimes with a gap).
Not sure I understand what you mean here - use of the Exemption doesn't require any registration.
However, if you are suggesting that the Exemption can be used for IMC training that takes place in actual (or simulated) IMC, I believe you are incorrect. In those circumstances, you would neither be "entitled to act as PIC", nor would the "purpose of the flight be to obtain a certificate of test, experience or revalidation"; hence you would not be satisfying the conditions of the Exemption.
That the IMC rating is a national rating not a JAA rating is a red herring. If you were training for an IMC rating in a group-owned aeroplane, it would be illegal if the instructor received remuneration and the aeroplane complied only with the airworthiness provisions applicable to private flights.
No Registration need for IMC training as its not a JAA rating.
However, if you are suggesting that the Exemption can be used for IMC training that takes place in actual (or simulated) IMC, I believe you are incorrect. In those circumstances, you would neither be "entitled to act as PIC", nor would the "purpose of the flight be to obtain a certificate of test, experience or revalidation"; hence you would not be satisfying the conditions of the Exemption.
That the IMC rating is a national rating not a JAA rating is a red herring. If you were training for an IMC rating in a group-owned aeroplane, it would be illegal if the instructor received remuneration and the aeroplane complied only with the airworthiness provisions applicable to private flights.
