Flight Instructing whilst working for Airlines
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Anywhere but home
Flight Instructing whilst working for Airlines
Hey folks,
After deciding to fork out for an Instructor Rating, I have managed to get a job with Ryanair! With the dates that I have been given, it looks as if I will not get to consolodate what Ive learnt as an FI before starting at FR, so my question is as follows:
Does anyone know if Ryanair allow you to instruct on your days off? What is the policy of other similar airlines?
Thanks
Andy
After deciding to fork out for an Instructor Rating, I have managed to get a job with Ryanair! With the dates that I have been given, it looks as if I will not get to consolodate what Ive learnt as an FI before starting at FR, so my question is as follows:
Does anyone know if Ryanair allow you to instruct on your days off? What is the policy of other similar airlines?
Thanks
Andy
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,274
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From: Glen Prosen, Scotland
It will depend on your airline's policy. In my own case (Loganair) we are not allowed to fly for any other operator without the written permission of the boss etc. As we don't fly anywhere near 900 hours per year there is not a problem getting that permission to do a bit of instructing however I can almost guarantee that Ryanair will want 899 hours 60 minutes out of you so no chance. You can fly non-commercially of course but that won't help you.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 82
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From: Madeira
Hi,
Instruction is non-public transport flying (no AOC required). Therefore shouldn't interfere with rules on flight time limitation. So flying 900 hrs for Ryanair shouldn't preclude doing some instruction in your spare time - legally anyway.
However, if you have the energy to do any extra flying (above 900/year) with sufficient rest between the two is another matter! I would give it six months at Ryanair to see how you do.
This is my understanding of the rules, I of course stand to be corrected.
L.
Instruction is non-public transport flying (no AOC required). Therefore shouldn't interfere with rules on flight time limitation. So flying 900 hrs for Ryanair shouldn't preclude doing some instruction in your spare time - legally anyway.
However, if you have the energy to do any extra flying (above 900/year) with sufficient rest between the two is another matter! I would give it six months at Ryanair to see how you do.
This is my understanding of the rules, I of course stand to be corrected.
L.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
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I go with whopity
But not only does it go towards your 900 but also 100 in 28 days. And all the other days off counts as well.
Although I must admit I have seen an CAA AOC holder's FTL scheme where it only states the sub 5700kg rule. ie if its under 5700kg you don't count it.
This could be where the confusion comes from.
To be honest as nice as it is to think about doing some instruction. After flying 100 every 28 and 900 hours a year I doudt very much you will be so keen to strap a C150 to your backside on your days off.
But not only does it go towards your 900 but also 100 in 28 days. And all the other days off counts as well.
Although I must admit I have seen an CAA AOC holder's FTL scheme where it only states the sub 5700kg rule. ie if its under 5700kg you don't count it.
This could be where the confusion comes from.
To be honest as nice as it is to think about doing some instruction. After flying 100 every 28 and 900 hours a year I doudt very much you will be so keen to strap a C150 to your backside on your days off.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
Flight times – responsibilities of flight crew
84 (1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person shall not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom if at the beginning of the flight the aggregate of all his previous flight times:
(a) during the period of 28 consecutive days expiring at the end of the day on which the flight begins exceeds 100 hours; or
(b) during the period of twelve months expiring at the end of the previous month exceeds 900 hours.
(2) This article shall not apply to a flight which is:
(a) A private flight in an aircraft of which the maximum total weight does not exceed 1600 kg;
84 (1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person shall not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom if at the beginning of the flight the aggregate of all his previous flight times:
(a) during the period of 28 consecutive days expiring at the end of the day on which the flight begins exceeds 100 hours; or
(b) during the period of twelve months expiring at the end of the previous month exceeds 900 hours.
(2) This article shall not apply to a flight which is:
(a) A private flight in an aircraft of which the maximum total weight does not exceed 1600 kg;
Joined: May 2004
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From: Neither Here Nor There
This area is covered by two sets of regulations:
The Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004, which applies to Commercial Air Transport and restricts air crew (flight and cabin) to 900 hours Block Time in any rolling 12 month period. They do not apply to aerial work, including instructing.
The Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2003 does apply to aerial work and governs working time (of any description) to a maximum of 48 hours per week averaged over a 17 week period.
Flying instructors, whose main job is flying instructing, would be governed under the second set of regulations.
Commercial aircrew would be governed under the first set and the probability is that any flight instruction outside their primary employment would be counted towards the 900 hours.
Saying that, these are new regulations derived from EU directives, which have caused significant debate already, e.g. stand-by time counting as full or half block time, and the regulations have never been tested in the Courts, which will probably be the deciding factor.
I couldn't see the authorities rushing to prosecute any commercial aircrew exceeding the 900 hours by doing a bit of instructing on their days off so in the meantime, it would probably be down to the employer to permit (or not) commercial aircrew to instruct on their days off.
This probably doesn't help much but the fact is that this area is still relatively new, the regulations (as with most EU derived legislation) is very nebulous and open to interpretation - God bless the EU and Roman Law - and still remains to be tested.
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The Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004, which applies to Commercial Air Transport and restricts air crew (flight and cabin) to 900 hours Block Time in any rolling 12 month period. They do not apply to aerial work, including instructing.
The Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2003 does apply to aerial work and governs working time (of any description) to a maximum of 48 hours per week averaged over a 17 week period.
Flying instructors, whose main job is flying instructing, would be governed under the second set of regulations.
Commercial aircrew would be governed under the first set and the probability is that any flight instruction outside their primary employment would be counted towards the 900 hours.
Saying that, these are new regulations derived from EU directives, which have caused significant debate already, e.g. stand-by time counting as full or half block time, and the regulations have never been tested in the Courts, which will probably be the deciding factor.
I couldn't see the authorities rushing to prosecute any commercial aircrew exceeding the 900 hours by doing a bit of instructing on their days off so in the meantime, it would probably be down to the employer to permit (or not) commercial aircrew to instruct on their days off.
This probably doesn't help much but the fact is that this area is still relatively new, the regulations (as with most EU derived legislation) is very nebulous and open to interpretation - God bless the EU and Roman Law - and still remains to be tested.
2close
