Fatigue and low morale
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Join Date: May 2001
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Fatigue and low morale
Just wondering how much more of this I can put up with. I seem to remember a Pprune member recently suffering a great deal of stress and getting depressed so I know I'm not the only one. Indeed I believe my colleagues may feel the same though I don't have time to talk to them.
Problem is being overworked, no breaks at all, under pressure to stick to an unrealistic schedule, poor admin organisation. I can't keep on doing 10 or 12 hr days with no proper breaks, other than when the student checks the aircraft. I asked the boss and was told that 'plenty of other jobs involve working 12 hr days with no break'... When I mentioned the law and minimum rest periods I was told it doesn't apply to Pilots??
Sometimes I am so fatigued I drive home in a daze unable to remember any of the days lessons. Students must surely be getting poor value.
Do we really have to put up with this? I know I'm not alone, and before anyone states the obvious I can't take the decision to move lightly due to house and wife.
Although I'm not badly paid I really feel like I've been 'used' this summer.
I used to really enjoy instructing but this last couple of months have really taken the shine off it.
Problem is being overworked, no breaks at all, under pressure to stick to an unrealistic schedule, poor admin organisation. I can't keep on doing 10 or 12 hr days with no proper breaks, other than when the student checks the aircraft. I asked the boss and was told that 'plenty of other jobs involve working 12 hr days with no break'... When I mentioned the law and minimum rest periods I was told it doesn't apply to Pilots??
Sometimes I am so fatigued I drive home in a daze unable to remember any of the days lessons. Students must surely be getting poor value.
Do we really have to put up with this? I know I'm not alone, and before anyone states the obvious I can't take the decision to move lightly due to house and wife.
Although I'm not badly paid I really feel like I've been 'used' this summer.
I used to really enjoy instructing but this last couple of months have really taken the shine off it.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Sorry to hear what you have said.
Of course there is a working time directive. All employees are subject to it, even if they have signed a document as an opt-out.
Of course if you are self - employed then you have to set up your own working hours in your contract.
Even if you are part - time then you are protected, for hours, pay and holiday pay.
Please check the DTi website and if need be take some legal advice.
If you feel that the flying is becoming dangerous then you need to act.
Remember you are training a student, and if you are not getting the training right you should walk away.
Since I trained as an instructor I have realised that the school I learnt at did not give me the training I was paying for, no long briefings, little or no pre-flight briefings, just get in the aircraft and fly. Not the best way of training.
MAke sure you have a contract - if he complains then I would suggest that there is something else going on and you should be wary and maybe even look elsewhere.
Of course there is a working time directive. All employees are subject to it, even if they have signed a document as an opt-out.
Of course if you are self - employed then you have to set up your own working hours in your contract.
Even if you are part - time then you are protected, for hours, pay and holiday pay.
Please check the DTi website and if need be take some legal advice.
If you feel that the flying is becoming dangerous then you need to act.
Remember you are training a student, and if you are not getting the training right you should walk away.
Since I trained as an instructor I have realised that the school I learnt at did not give me the training I was paying for, no long briefings, little or no pre-flight briefings, just get in the aircraft and fly. Not the best way of training.
MAke sure you have a contract - if he complains then I would suggest that there is something else going on and you should be wary and maybe even look elsewhere.
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Acually things have eased the last few days but I'll still have a look at the DTi website and maybe the IPA. I have had time to give proper briefings and feel better for it, ie more satisfied and less stressed.
I was supposed to get a contract but it hasn't materialised in the months I've been there. I haven't asked but will do so as soon as I get the chance and see what happens.
I was supposed to get a contract but it hasn't materialised in the months I've been there. I haven't asked but will do so as soon as I get the chance and see what happens.
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Once again...
I'm driven to comment that this looks like excellent preparation for joining certain airlines I could name... throw into the mix some much earlier starts, much later finishes, and night flying, and Bob's your Uncle!
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Nope. Nowhere near the M25 in fact! (though I know the one you mean)
I'd like to believe that things would be better in an airline but it is beggining to dawn on me that it will be little differnet! In that case I'll just have to get on with it, after all this is my passion and dream and I still love the flying. (Not to mention the dosh its cost me)
Just to put my original post into perspective, it must have been a particularly bad week. Normally its not so bad, and I can control the daily schedule if I try hard enough, and allow room for a break and briefings. It is very satisfying when you successfully teach someone somthing completely new like stalling or landing or nav!
The Otter's Pocket: I too look back at my PPL training in dismay. I got my PPL (shan't say where) many years ago without really understanding how to land properly!!
I'd like to believe that things would be better in an airline but it is beggining to dawn on me that it will be little differnet! In that case I'll just have to get on with it, after all this is my passion and dream and I still love the flying. (Not to mention the dosh its cost me)
Just to put my original post into perspective, it must have been a particularly bad week. Normally its not so bad, and I can control the daily schedule if I try hard enough, and allow room for a break and briefings. It is very satisfying when you successfully teach someone somthing completely new like stalling or landing or nav!
The Otter's Pocket: I too look back at my PPL training in dismay. I got my PPL (shan't say where) many years ago without really understanding how to land properly!!
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Dude,
I feel entirely sorry for you and your situation, it's one I have just got out of slowly,
Flying schools think that some how normal legal working practices don't apply! They are all con artists and will abuse us FI's for what ever they can get out of us....
I have maintained for some time that if the FI's of this country had there own union, and stood very firmly together on T+C's and Pay then we would get more respect and better treatment...but now that wold be too hard for the likes of BALPA to sort out or assist with now wouldn't it?
Good luck Dude, I hope it gets better for you soon, I'm with you all the way..
WB
I feel entirely sorry for you and your situation, it's one I have just got out of slowly,
Flying schools think that some how normal legal working practices don't apply! They are all con artists and will abuse us FI's for what ever they can get out of us....
I have maintained for some time that if the FI's of this country had there own union, and stood very firmly together on T+C's and Pay then we would get more respect and better treatment...but now that wold be too hard for the likes of BALPA to sort out or assist with now wouldn't it?
Good luck Dude, I hope it gets better for you soon, I'm with you all the way..
WB
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Morning,
Sounds like you all work for crap schools, especially the ones that only have 1hr 15min slots per lesson.
When I was an instructor I was forced to take two days off per week so as not to burn myself out and have more energy for my students. Didn't agree with it at first (as was worried that I would fly less and earn less money), but soon learned to appreciate it - all down to the CFI monitoring standards.
Nice idea about some sort of FI union WB.
L.
Sounds like you all work for crap schools, especially the ones that only have 1hr 15min slots per lesson.
When I was an instructor I was forced to take two days off per week so as not to burn myself out and have more energy for my students. Didn't agree with it at first (as was worried that I would fly less and earn less money), but soon learned to appreciate it - all down to the CFI monitoring standards.
Nice idea about some sort of FI union WB.
L.
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Many flying school owners are crooks, but not all. In fact there are some pretty excellent schools out there.
90 minute slots can work, but they rely on everything running properly. Anything less is just asking for trouble and is actually less efficient for all concerned.
Fatigue and low morale go hand in hand. If you try and do 7 days a week (as I have found to my cost) you just end up doing a rubbish job and get totally stressed and knackered for no reason.
Whilst I break this rule regularily, I try and keep all my FI's to 4 hours a day airborne. Luckily as we all have other forms of income, we aren't reliant on doing 7 hours a day to keep the wolf from the door.
FI's do need an association or union purely for them, but with the way the market is at the moment, salaries are only going to go up from here anyway. A simple case of supply and demand.
90 minute slots can work, but they rely on everything running properly. Anything less is just asking for trouble and is actually less efficient for all concerned.
Fatigue and low morale go hand in hand. If you try and do 7 days a week (as I have found to my cost) you just end up doing a rubbish job and get totally stressed and knackered for no reason.
Whilst I break this rule regularily, I try and keep all my FI's to 4 hours a day airborne. Luckily as we all have other forms of income, we aren't reliant on doing 7 hours a day to keep the wolf from the door.
FI's do need an association or union purely for them, but with the way the market is at the moment, salaries are only going to go up from here anyway. A simple case of supply and demand.
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Fatigue and low morale
RE Union or association for instructors
We have set up a Professional Flying Instructors Association (started last year in March) and regularly have meetings at Shoreham Airport. Next month (4th October) we are holding the first meeting in the North at Barton airfield to see if we cn get a group going up there. Its aims include improving conditions for instructors, campaigning for improved status and pay, developing standardisation and raising standards, disseminating information etc. Last winter season we rana series of talks by outside speakers and some senior instructors and this season we have six speakers.
It is £10 join and free beer and snacks are provided before and after the meetings. If you have serious gripes then do contact me by private email and I will try to help.
Contact me also for details of meetings both at Shoreham or in Manchester,
All the best
L in R
We have set up a Professional Flying Instructors Association (started last year in March) and regularly have meetings at Shoreham Airport. Next month (4th October) we are holding the first meeting in the North at Barton airfield to see if we cn get a group going up there. Its aims include improving conditions for instructors, campaigning for improved status and pay, developing standardisation and raising standards, disseminating information etc. Last winter season we rana series of talks by outside speakers and some senior instructors and this season we have six speakers.
It is £10 join and free beer and snacks are provided before and after the meetings. If you have serious gripes then do contact me by private email and I will try to help.
Contact me also for details of meetings both at Shoreham or in Manchester,
All the best
L in R
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90 mins!!!! Sheesh, i had trouble trying to do a reasonable brief, flight and debrief in a 2 hour slot. 6 of those in a day and maybe a sim or two after hours - yup been there done that but ain't putting up with it anymore.
Good luck.
Good luck.
