re: flying in turbulence
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re: flying in turbulence
I was flying in very turbulent conditions last few days (turbulence due to high temperatures at various altitudes, no cumulonimbus clouds etc.).
At times, I have experienced very high rolling forces and speed would shoot up from 90kts to 110kts within seconds.
I'd like to know if it'd be possible to enter inverted flight accidentally in these condtions (i.e. did anyone experience it)? The reason for my question is cos at times I had to pull the wheel really hard to put C150 back to straight and level flight.
At times, I have experienced very high rolling forces and speed would shoot up from 90kts to 110kts within seconds.
I'd like to know if it'd be possible to enter inverted flight accidentally in these condtions (i.e. did anyone experience it)? The reason for my question is cos at times I had to pull the wheel really hard to put C150 back to straight and level flight.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Good question. It would have to be extremely turbulent to roll inverted inadvertently..... I think you'd probably want to be on the ground well before it got that bad.
Of course, when it's turbulent, you will always ensure you stay below the yellow arc on your ASI. If you think you might need full control deflection (as it sounds like you might do), you will also stay below your manoevering speed, Va. Remember that Va in the manual is quoted at the maximum weight, and it decreases with weight, so if you were flying at anything below maximum weight you would need to fly at a slower speed than the Va quoted in your manual.
Taking up an aerobatics course is a very sensible thing to do if this kind of situation concerns you. I'm sure your future aerobatics instructor would know more on the subject than I do, but if you do find yourself inadvertently inverted, then make sure you roll upright, don't try to pull yourself upright or you risk stalling and/or pulling the wings off.
FFF
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Of course, when it's turbulent, you will always ensure you stay below the yellow arc on your ASI. If you think you might need full control deflection (as it sounds like you might do), you will also stay below your manoevering speed, Va. Remember that Va in the manual is quoted at the maximum weight, and it decreases with weight, so if you were flying at anything below maximum weight you would need to fly at a slower speed than the Va quoted in your manual.
Taking up an aerobatics course is a very sensible thing to do if this kind of situation concerns you. I'm sure your future aerobatics instructor would know more on the subject than I do, but if you do find yourself inadvertently inverted, then make sure you roll upright, don't try to pull yourself upright or you risk stalling and/or pulling the wings off.
FFF
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Sporting for me, but not so great when your trial lesson turns up and admits he has a mild hangover and you slowly see him turning green next to you during the flight. 
On the other hand you dont often see a 152 break the 1200ft/min climb rate without a run up. If I didnt have a student with me, I would love to have tried to see how long I could have stayed in the thermal.
Mint
On the other hand you dont often see a 152 break the 1200ft/min climb rate without a run up. If I didnt have a student with me, I would love to have tried to see how long I could have stayed in the thermal.
Mint
"Sporting for me, but not so great when your trial lesson turns up and admits he has a mild hangover and you slowly see him turning green next to you during the flight."
And what conceivable benefit would your student have gained from this joyride, sorry, 'trial lesson'?
Clearly, from what you say, neither he nor the conditions were suitable for an air experience lesson.
And what conceivable benefit would your student have gained from this joyride, sorry, 'trial lesson'?
Clearly, from what you say, neither he nor the conditions were suitable for an air experience lesson.
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Wasn't going to bore you with the details but in my defence, the TL was with someone who had won it in a competition, had no intentions to continue to do a PPL, insisted he wanted to do it there and then even after informing that it was fairly turbulent low level, didnt actually admit being hungover until we were well into the climb. To save any embarracement I continued the climb to about 6K where conditions were alot smoother and he lasted the hour with using the SB.
Out of interest where do you draw the line Beagle and other FI's in the level of turbulence before you start cancelling TL's.
The day in question above was very hot around 30C, lots of sunshine, wind at groundlevel probably about 10Knots, hardly a day to cancel trial lessons, if you wait for only smooth days schools will be going out of business all over as many of them may rely on TLs to keep the them ticking over.
Mint
Out of interest where do you draw the line Beagle and other FI's in the level of turbulence before you start cancelling TL's.
The day in question above was very hot around 30C, lots of sunshine, wind at groundlevel probably about 10Knots, hardly a day to cancel trial lessons, if you wait for only smooth days schools will be going out of business all over as many of them may rely on TLs to keep the them ticking over.
Mint
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This is one of those decisions that as a pilot/instructor are hard to make.
How often have you got airborne thinking i shouldn't be up here.
T/L's etal can put a lot of pressure on you to go.
I would never make an instructor feel that he has to go, come what may, the individual has to make his/her own decision to go.
We might watch others get airborne in zero/zero vis, or gusting 35kts and feel "well they have gone, it must be alright to go".
How often have you got airborne thinking i shouldn't be up here.
T/L's etal can put a lot of pressure on you to go.
I would never make an instructor feel that he has to go, come what may, the individual has to make his/her own decision to go.
We might watch others get airborne in zero/zero vis, or gusting 35kts and feel "well they have gone, it must be alright to go".
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RONS dont worry about inverting in turbulence the chances of that happening are extremly remote (in my 33 year experience) unless you make some bizzare control inputs. The important thing in severe turbulence and severe is defined as likley to damage the aircraft is to try and not to make control inputs that will increase the loading on the aircraft.
I have had three very nasty experiences in CB where the aircraft was put into large pitch and roll attitudes that alarmed me to the point of near panic.As in two we were also struck by lightning I cannot begin to tell you how frightened i was was for a brief instance, however there was never any fear of the aircraft inverting--my main fear was that the AHs would topple so some limited panel unsusal attitude recoveries may help your confidence as your most likely encounter with severe turbulence is likely to be in CB.
Its also nice to bear in mind that your C150 ihas greater G stress limits than all modern airliners, so stay cool.
PS my excursions into CB were as a result of unservicable weather radar, embedded cb with an aircfaft with no weather radar and all on passenger carrying flights not instructional
I have had three very nasty experiences in CB where the aircraft was put into large pitch and roll attitudes that alarmed me to the point of near panic.As in two we were also struck by lightning I cannot begin to tell you how frightened i was was for a brief instance, however there was never any fear of the aircraft inverting--my main fear was that the AHs would topple so some limited panel unsusal attitude recoveries may help your confidence as your most likely encounter with severe turbulence is likely to be in CB.
Its also nice to bear in mind that your C150 ihas greater G stress limits than all modern airliners, so stay cool.
PS my excursions into CB were as a result of unservicable weather radar, embedded cb with an aircfaft with no weather radar and all on passenger carrying flights not instructional
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Originally Posted by Mintflavour
Sporting for me, but not so great when your trial lesson turns up and admits he has a mild hangover and you slowly see him turning green next to you during the flight.
On the other hand you dont often see a 152 break the 1200ft/min climb rate without a run up. If I didnt have a student with me, I would love to have tried to see how long I could have stayed in the thermal.
Mint
On the other hand you dont often see a 152 break the 1200ft/min climb rate without a run up. If I didnt have a student with me, I would love to have tried to see how long I could have stayed in the thermal.
Mint
Originally Posted by Mintflavour
Out of interest where do you draw the line Beagle and other FI's in the level of turbulence before you start cancelling TL's.
Regards,
DFC
thank you for replies
