Second career as flying instructor.
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Second career as flying instructor.
I realise this subject has been covered before but I can't seem to find a previous link
As I approach my mid 50s and 400hrs PPL thoughts turn to becoming a flying instructor. Am I too old? I have been told that I need to do the CPL written exams and pass the CPL flight test to be able to do the FI course. I wonder if I would struggle with the CPL writtens 
and wonder if the flight tests are just a bridge too far
. I read some time ago about a proposed FI course based on experience and attendance at a flying instructors school, has that gone any further? Would there be any chance of getting a paid job as a FI that wants to 'settle down' as an FI? Thanks for any comments 
As I approach my mid 50s and 400hrs PPL thoughts turn to becoming a flying instructor. Am I too old? I have been told that I need to do the CPL written exams and pass the CPL flight test to be able to do the FI course. I wonder if I would struggle with the CPL writtens and wonder if the flight tests are just a bridge too far . I read some time ago about a proposed FI course based on experience and attendance at a flying instructors school, has that gone any further? Would there be any chance of getting a paid job as a FI that wants to 'settle down' as an FI? Thanks for any comments
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Not too old....
You are not too old. Indeed your experience would be welcome. There are no changes (as far as I am aware) on the regulatory front as far as the FI regs are concerned. Although BEagle may enlighten you on this as he has been asking for a career path for FIs that is intended to avoid superfluous work on exams with questions largely unrelated to that job. They are looking at the PPL-IR exams at the moment but no movement on the CPL.
You would have at the moment to do the CPL writtens the CPL flight test and course and the FI flight test and course. I assume you would want payment.
You would have at the moment to do the CPL writtens the CPL flight test and course and the FI flight test and course. I assume you would want payment.
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HI Mate
It can be done I did it starting at 54 back in 2000
Expect to spend £16500 + without an IR
CPL ground school Budget £2500 +
For CPL you will need to pass 9 JAA subjects see App 1 JAA-FCL1.470
(If you are planning a CPL I/R there is a different Air Law Exam )
To Take the Exams you will need a ground school sign off on the exam application. So Suggest you do a ground school distance learning with consolidation. Suggest you talk to GTS at Bournemouth 01202580809
Exams at £60 each (£540 )
CPL skill test £691
CPL Flying on complex type 25 hrs (PA28r 200 ) min of £215 per hour
plus skill test flying of 150 minutes plus approach and landing fee (£6500 )
FI Course inc ground school £190 per flying hour instruction (£ 4750)
plus 5 hrs mutual (£ 600 ) plus exam Fee £200?
CPL Licence cost £210
Inclusion of FI Rating £105
Removal of restrictions (that the R from your FI(R) ) and subsequent licence upgrades eg removal of No Night , No Aeros, No applied Inst
That's £76 each
Then add in 10 nights stay at Ground school £350 plus
That crunches out at around £16500
Additionally to have No applied Inst / Aeros removed, 5 hrs each course budget £1500 + admin. (exam fee of around £200 for IMC only, no exam for aeros )
Forget any ideas about the new JAA I/R that's years away, (so I am
advised ) I am having another go at my IR now and you have to redo your theory exams as they have a 3 year life. I would not be going down this path if the JAA revised IR was to become available in the near future.
Additionally I know nothing of any proposed /planned short cuts to FI.
it would be great to bring back the Old Idea of a Club Instrucor doing it for fun (love ) and to support a club, but that raises all sorts of issues, perhaps an Idea for a new thread
Cheers Orions***
PS forgot to say you need a Class 1 Medical £337 at Gatwick plus renewal every 6 months at Around £150/180 per shot.
It can be done I did it starting at 54 back in 2000
Expect to spend £16500 + without an IR
CPL ground school Budget £2500 +
For CPL you will need to pass 9 JAA subjects see App 1 JAA-FCL1.470
(If you are planning a CPL I/R there is a different Air Law Exam )
To Take the Exams you will need a ground school sign off on the exam application. So Suggest you do a ground school distance learning with consolidation. Suggest you talk to GTS at Bournemouth 01202580809
Exams at £60 each (£540 )
CPL skill test £691
CPL Flying on complex type 25 hrs (PA28r 200 ) min of £215 per hour
plus skill test flying of 150 minutes plus approach and landing fee (£6500 )
FI Course inc ground school £190 per flying hour instruction (£ 4750)
plus 5 hrs mutual (£ 600 ) plus exam Fee £200?
CPL Licence cost £210
Inclusion of FI Rating £105
Removal of restrictions (that the R from your FI(R) ) and subsequent licence upgrades eg removal of No Night , No Aeros, No applied Inst
That's £76 each
Then add in 10 nights stay at Ground school £350 plus
That crunches out at around £16500
Additionally to have No applied Inst / Aeros removed, 5 hrs each course budget £1500 + admin. (exam fee of around £200 for IMC only, no exam for aeros )
Forget any ideas about the new JAA I/R that's years away, (so I am
advised ) I am having another go at my IR now and you have to redo your theory exams as they have a 3 year life. I would not be going down this path if the JAA revised IR was to become available in the near future.
Additionally I know nothing of any proposed /planned short cuts to FI.
it would be great to bring back the Old Idea of a Club Instrucor doing it for fun (love ) and to support a club, but that raises all sorts of issues, perhaps an Idea for a new thread
Cheers Orions***
PS forgot to say you need a Class 1 Medical £337 at Gatwick plus renewal every 6 months at Around £150/180 per shot.
Last edited by orionsbelt; 30th Mar 2006 at 09:00.
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Thanks fella's I'll start digesting all the gen. The 'alternative' that I mentioned was proposed by Dorothy Pooley and GAPAN. The main thrust of it being that students, with suitable experience, attend a flying instructor school to learn about teaching and carryout an FI's course prior to going out into the big bad world etc. I suppose it harks back to something akin to the old BCPL and would probably work out a lot cheaper. Thanks again.
That's Dorothy Pooley of GAPAN. I am not sure whether her sub-committee's ideas have as yet become official Guild policy.
AOPA has a simpler concept in mind which would restore the pre-JAA UK PPL/FI and which has unofficially been stated by members of the JAA LSST as being more likely to succeed than Dorothy's proposal. But either proposal will require a Regulatory Impact Assessment, so don't expect any rapid changes to exisiting requirements.
AOPA has a simpler concept in mind which would restore the pre-JAA UK PPL/FI and which has unofficially been stated by members of the JAA LSST as being more likely to succeed than Dorothy's proposal. But either proposal will require a Regulatory Impact Assessment, so don't expect any rapid changes to exisiting requirements.
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I am in the same position as RAFbloke except I have some US ratings too. I am about to do the US Commercial flight test having studied and passed the knowledge test for all of £150.
Also having the FAA IR means a reduction in the hours of training required to do the JAA IR but I still have to do the exams. The FAA CPL will achieve the same. All in all I will do the ATPL exams rather than the CPL and IR seperately as I am not that worried about the 36 months.
Someone obviously thinks that cost = commitment which is not right.
I read somewhere that there are something like 41,000 certified flying instructors in the US although only 11,000 are active instructors. What it does mean is that the development path open to pilots makes it easier for them to improve their knowledge and skills and make them better pilots.
My reasons for becoming an instructor include becoming a better pilot and teaching is one of the best ways to learn. You would thing that the powers that be would be wanting to make it easier not harder.
Also having the FAA IR means a reduction in the hours of training required to do the JAA IR but I still have to do the exams. The FAA CPL will achieve the same. All in all I will do the ATPL exams rather than the CPL and IR seperately as I am not that worried about the 36 months.
Someone obviously thinks that cost = commitment which is not right.
I read somewhere that there are something like 41,000 certified flying instructors in the US although only 11,000 are active instructors. What it does mean is that the development path open to pilots makes it easier for them to improve their knowledge and skills and make them better pilots.
My reasons for becoming an instructor include becoming a better pilot and teaching is one of the best ways to learn. You would thing that the powers that be would be wanting to make it easier not harder.
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CPL or ATPL
rafbloke,
My Advice for Anyone Considering Taking CPL
My advice, through bitter experience, is to say don't do the CPL under any circumstances whatsoever: do the ATPL.
The CPL only has nine papers, but you are actually examined in 13 (yes, thirteen) subjects within those nine papers.
Let me explain the implications of this. Let's take an example, Navigation. In the ATPL General Navigation and Radio Navigation are two entirely different papers each with, I suppose, 70 odd questions in the exam for each subject: a total of about 140 questions. Clearly, it is possible to pass one and fail the other. If you fail one, you only have to revise the one you failed for your next attempt.
CPL Navigation is one paper that embraces both General and Radio Navigation, but you still only get, say 70 questions within which to demonstrate your knowledge. The syllabus for CPL Navigation covers at least 85%, if not more of the ATPL syllabus for both General and Radio Navigation.
Since the pass mark is 75% in all papers, you don't have to get many questions wrong in the CPL to fail effectively two subjects. This means you will have to revise both for your next attempt.
The Central Question Bank comprises a body of questions of which 85% are perfectly fair and reasonable. The remaining 15% are split equally between complete 'no brainers' and questions that require a depth of understanding far beyond anything that any commercial pilot needs for operational purposes. Questions are selected for inclusion in the paper by some kind of random selection process, so by sheer luck you can get either several 'no brainers' or several excessively difficult questions.
I think you can see that even if you have genuinely done the work, just a few of those excessively difficult questions could scupper your chances of passing, and then you have to revise the whole of two subjects all over again in order to repeat one paper. I found that this made the CPL far trickier to pass than the ATPL!
Bearing in mind also the much smaller privileges attached to the CPL and I would say it is not worth taking.
Broomstick.
My Advice for Anyone Considering Taking CPL
My advice, through bitter experience, is to say don't do the CPL under any circumstances whatsoever: do the ATPL.
The CPL only has nine papers, but you are actually examined in 13 (yes, thirteen) subjects within those nine papers.
Let me explain the implications of this. Let's take an example, Navigation. In the ATPL General Navigation and Radio Navigation are two entirely different papers each with, I suppose, 70 odd questions in the exam for each subject: a total of about 140 questions. Clearly, it is possible to pass one and fail the other. If you fail one, you only have to revise the one you failed for your next attempt.
CPL Navigation is one paper that embraces both General and Radio Navigation, but you still only get, say 70 questions within which to demonstrate your knowledge. The syllabus for CPL Navigation covers at least 85%, if not more of the ATPL syllabus for both General and Radio Navigation.
Since the pass mark is 75% in all papers, you don't have to get many questions wrong in the CPL to fail effectively two subjects. This means you will have to revise both for your next attempt.
The Central Question Bank comprises a body of questions of which 85% are perfectly fair and reasonable. The remaining 15% are split equally between complete 'no brainers' and questions that require a depth of understanding far beyond anything that any commercial pilot needs for operational purposes. Questions are selected for inclusion in the paper by some kind of random selection process, so by sheer luck you can get either several 'no brainers' or several excessively difficult questions.
I think you can see that even if you have genuinely done the work, just a few of those excessively difficult questions could scupper your chances of passing, and then you have to revise the whole of two subjects all over again in order to repeat one paper. I found that this made the CPL far trickier to pass than the ATPL!
Bearing in mind also the much smaller privileges attached to the CPL and I would say it is not worth taking.
Broomstick.
