PPL Syllabus - Why no Emergency Turns?
Thread Starter
>Errrrrrmmmm ... what did you think the steep turn is for? It is for avoidance! I know many students only learn it as an academic exercise, but not mine or even the ones I take for refresher training<
Send Clowns, maybe it is a question of semantics but I beg to differ!
The emergency turn procedure is for collision avoidance at close quarter/late notice and involves much larger inputs of control to get the turn going rapidly and also full power together with pulling to the buffet. This technique is not normally used for steep turn entry, as I am sure you already know!
Perhaps it would be interesting to do a straw poll of students (excluding yours or mine, of course!) and ask them what they think the purpose of the steep turn exercise is. My hallucination is that we would get some revealing answers!!
Send Clowns, maybe it is a question of semantics but I beg to differ!
The emergency turn procedure is for collision avoidance at close quarter/late notice and involves much larger inputs of control to get the turn going rapidly and also full power together with pulling to the buffet. This technique is not normally used for steep turn entry, as I am sure you already know!
Perhaps it would be interesting to do a straw poll of students (excluding yours or mine, of course!) and ask them what they think the purpose of the steep turn exercise is. My hallucination is that we would get some revealing answers!!
Have to say I'm with FireflyBob on that one.
The one time I had to do an avoiding action turn, the only thing I was interested in was getting the sideways motion going a few seconds ago, if not earlier. It was a mash-the-rudder, give-it-full-aileron-and-yank affair, and in my relief at watching the other guy (or girl) flash by, I didn't give a rats that the ball was way out and the turn looked ugly. I think a true emergency turn is similar, and obviously not to be practiced at low level. Once the sideways movement is started, which depends largely on roll rate, which is helped by coarse bottom rudder, subtleties such as gently encouraging the ball back to centre and relaxing the back pressure before it flicks, can be indulged in. Though it would be a bad day to miss the other aircraft and then spin in from low (or any) level. So I think they should be practised. Below Va.
A steep turn should be a carefully coordinated manoeuvre, used primarily, I'm guessing, to turn around within a confined space, where balance is important because, quite apart from stall/spin considerations, it helps minimise the turn radius.
The one time I had to do an avoiding action turn, the only thing I was interested in was getting the sideways motion going a few seconds ago, if not earlier. It was a mash-the-rudder, give-it-full-aileron-and-yank affair, and in my relief at watching the other guy (or girl) flash by, I didn't give a rats that the ball was way out and the turn looked ugly. I think a true emergency turn is similar, and obviously not to be practiced at low level. Once the sideways movement is started, which depends largely on roll rate, which is helped by coarse bottom rudder, subtleties such as gently encouraging the ball back to centre and relaxing the back pressure before it flicks, can be indulged in. Though it would be a bad day to miss the other aircraft and then spin in from low (or any) level. So I think they should be practised. Below Va.
A steep turn should be a carefully coordinated manoeuvre, used primarily, I'm guessing, to turn around within a confined space, where balance is important because, quite apart from stall/spin considerations, it helps minimise the turn radius.
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I went on an instructor seminar some time back and most of the guys had not considered the steep turn as practice for collision avoidance............................. What a hole in the education of instructors !.
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Originally Posted by Send Clowns
Errrrrrmmmm ... what did you think the steep turn is for?
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Must admit I think i have taught quite a few people the wrong exercise.
I always taught the steep turn as a emergency turn (if the current desciption in this thread applies). Be it getting the sod pointing the other way in a scottish glen or avoiding someone. O well ****e happens they all passed but will in the future scare the crap out of some FI when thay say steep turn to the left and they rack it in and pull 2 G only putting power in when the stall buzzer goes.
I always taught the steep turn as a emergency turn (if the current desciption in this thread applies). Be it getting the sod pointing the other way in a scottish glen or avoiding someone. O well ****e happens they all passed but will in the future scare the crap out of some FI when thay say steep turn to the left and they rack it in and pull 2 G only putting power in when the stall buzzer goes.
