Lying to students to get them to learn to fly.
The Original Whirly
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Lying to students to get them to learn to fly.
I'm absolutely, completely, flaming mad! Mad as in furious!!!!
In the last month, I've talked to two people who were considering learning to fly with a view to going commercial, who'd both been comprehensively lied to by the flying schools they approached.
The first wanted to learn to fly helicopters, and he was told there was a real shortage of helicopter pilots, and that he could easily get a job as soon as he got his CPL(H). This is a load of utter rubbish, as most of you will know. He was recommended by someone to contact me for some advice, and I told him the truth. He was incredibly grateful, and if he actually decides to learn anyway, I think I may have a student.
The second, a woman in her 50s who wanted to fly f/w, was told that her age was no barrier; she'd easily get a flying job. Again, not really true, unless she's very, very lucky. She started learning to fly, and several people she talked to put her right. She's severely disappointed, but deciding to get her PPL anyway, and take it from there.
So do many schools or instructors do this? Are you/they that desperate for students? Doesn't anyone give a damn about the fact that they're seriously misleading these people? And in the long run, don't you/they realise it'll be counter-productive, when the person concerned finds out the truth and won't touch that school with a bargepole?
Rant over, but I'm seriously interested to know what people think.
In the last month, I've talked to two people who were considering learning to fly with a view to going commercial, who'd both been comprehensively lied to by the flying schools they approached.
The first wanted to learn to fly helicopters, and he was told there was a real shortage of helicopter pilots, and that he could easily get a job as soon as he got his CPL(H). This is a load of utter rubbish, as most of you will know. He was recommended by someone to contact me for some advice, and I told him the truth. He was incredibly grateful, and if he actually decides to learn anyway, I think I may have a student.
The second, a woman in her 50s who wanted to fly f/w, was told that her age was no barrier; she'd easily get a flying job. Again, not really true, unless she's very, very lucky. She started learning to fly, and several people she talked to put her right. She's severely disappointed, but deciding to get her PPL anyway, and take it from there.
So do many schools or instructors do this? Are you/they that desperate for students? Doesn't anyone give a damn about the fact that they're seriously misleading these people? And in the long run, don't you/they realise it'll be counter-productive, when the person concerned finds out the truth and won't touch that school with a bargepole?
Rant over, but I'm seriously interested to know what people think.
Jet Blast Rat
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Not many do, in my experience Whirly.
I had dishonest advice inappropriate to me, but giving them more profit had I followed, by one school that I have since found has a bad reputation in the business. Others put me right (ironically the original school lost my business because their advice made them so much more expensive, rather than for the sins of dishonesty). I would always tell the older ones that there are jobs, but they'll have a much harder time and might never recover the costs of the course. I know others say the same, as I have spoken to them at exhibitions.
I am curious to know who lied to the potential helicopter pilot, although I don't expect to be told. It would just be interesting to test my guess.
I had dishonest advice inappropriate to me, but giving them more profit had I followed, by one school that I have since found has a bad reputation in the business. Others put me right (ironically the original school lost my business because their advice made them so much more expensive, rather than for the sins of dishonesty). I would always tell the older ones that there are jobs, but they'll have a much harder time and might never recover the costs of the course. I know others say the same, as I have spoken to them at exhibitions.
I am curious to know who lied to the potential helicopter pilot, although I don't expect to be told. It would just be interesting to test my guess.
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Whirly,
A word or three from a fairly recent (2003) student:
Good post and it deserves a rant. Could this be a wider problem with schools pushing f/w PPL’s in 45 Hrs and NPPLs in 35 Hrs when the national average for all ages is higher?
One school, no longer in business, pushed this line with me (then a 51 year old), fortunately I had done my research and looked elsewhere.
The other school did say its possible (at my age) to do it in the legal minimum and pointed out someone older who had done so, but they were more open about the realities of life and got my business. Having crashed through the course in a little over 3 months (which I think helps an awful lot, again something not often pointed out - except on the forums) and 45 hours, they pointed at me for a while - but still give the warning.
You hit the nail on the head with this, but if you have committed fees up front (another no-no unless in reasonably small chunks and by credit card), got to know the instructor (who may not have made the representations) etc etc you could be locked in.
The sad thing is people don't do the simple research an old cynic like me does as a matter of course on any significant purchasing decision and are then let down by these charlatans.
A word or three from a fairly recent (2003) student:
Good post and it deserves a rant. Could this be a wider problem with schools pushing f/w PPL’s in 45 Hrs and NPPLs in 35 Hrs when the national average for all ages is higher?
One school, no longer in business, pushed this line with me (then a 51 year old), fortunately I had done my research and looked elsewhere.
The other school did say its possible (at my age) to do it in the legal minimum and pointed out someone older who had done so, but they were more open about the realities of life and got my business. Having crashed through the course in a little over 3 months (which I think helps an awful lot, again something not often pointed out - except on the forums) and 45 hours, they pointed at me for a while - but still give the warning.
don't you/they realise it'll be counter-productive
The sad thing is people don't do the simple research an old cynic like me does as a matter of course on any significant purchasing decision and are then let down by these charlatans.
Its endemic and always has been. Sadly. Prior to PPRuNe the situation was worse.
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A few years ago I worked as an instructor/charter heli pilot for a company who instructed staff it was company policy to tell potential cpls etc they could earn £30k pa plus as a CPL/FI and there was a national shortage ! I just used to not discuss pay when the boss was around. It goes on elswhere I am sure of that
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Sadly, human nature is such that people who have things to sell often lie (or at least exagerate) to people who have money to spend! Anybody planning to spend several thousand pounds on anything would be well advised to take care and to seek several opinions.
Please don't think I am excusing the behaviour of these schools, I have had to deal with the consequences of misled students and would gladly line up the rip off merchants and shoot them all. But people need to take responsibility for their own lives and for the decisions they make! It's a nasty world out there!
3 Point
Please don't think I am excusing the behaviour of these schools, I have had to deal with the consequences of misled students and would gladly line up the rip off merchants and shoot them all. But people need to take responsibility for their own lives and for the decisions they make! It's a nasty world out there!
3 Point
Last edited by 3 Point; 5th Oct 2005 at 20:08.
The Original Whirly
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Sadly, human nature is such that people who have things to sell often lie (or at least exagerate) to people who have money to spend!
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I am sorry to say that I worked for a professional school for some years and I saw several students who would have been better off bee-keeping. It did cause me great concern that these enthusiastic but mis-guided students were unlikely to get a job, even if they managed to pass, but would I have kept my job if I warned them off?. It is for this reason that I fully support the GAPAN aptitude testing before a final commitment is made.
The Original Whirly
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Malcolm,
Interesting. In a way that's the other side of the same coin. You see, I know at least three people who were told early on by instructors that they'd never make it... and they're all now instructing and/or flying commercially. I don't know what the GAPAN tests would have said about them, but as an ex-occupational psychologist I'm a bit suspicious of aptitude tests - they don't test determination, maturity, ability to get on with people, sheer bloodymindedness, and all sorts of other things that are useful in the real world.
What is wrong with being honest with people? You can tell them the industry is tough, you can tell them they seem to have a lot of difficulties and might struggle. And if you want to sell them the course, you can do it in such a way that they feel they can overcome anything if they have to.
Personally, I'd rather do that. At the end of the day I have to live with myself.
Interesting. In a way that's the other side of the same coin. You see, I know at least three people who were told early on by instructors that they'd never make it... and they're all now instructing and/or flying commercially. I don't know what the GAPAN tests would have said about them, but as an ex-occupational psychologist I'm a bit suspicious of aptitude tests - they don't test determination, maturity, ability to get on with people, sheer bloodymindedness, and all sorts of other things that are useful in the real world.
What is wrong with being honest with people? You can tell them the industry is tough, you can tell them they seem to have a lot of difficulties and might struggle. And if you want to sell them the course, you can do it in such a way that they feel they can overcome anything if they have to.
Personally, I'd rather do that. At the end of the day I have to live with myself.
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Well, one school at least (where I did my PPL(H) - Let's just say it is very near Wellesbourne) never, ever told any lies to me as to the prospects for an old, poor, low ability PPL(H).
What they did do was point out ways of making what little flying I do enjoyable and progressive with massive amounts of safety stuff always on tap.
One instructor gave to me straight and honest when I ventured an enquiry as to a possible future career.
I hang around the place often and have never overheard or spoken to any other customers who have been given misleading info. Quite the reverse in fact.
In view of the contents of previous posts is seems the right thing to do to shout up for the good guys + girls.
(Edited because I forgot to add 'girls' - sorry W)
What they did do was point out ways of making what little flying I do enjoyable and progressive with massive amounts of safety stuff always on tap.
One instructor gave to me straight and honest when I ventured an enquiry as to a possible future career.
I hang around the place often and have never overheard or spoken to any other customers who have been given misleading info. Quite the reverse in fact.
In view of the contents of previous posts is seems the right thing to do to shout up for the good guys + girls.
(Edited because I forgot to add 'girls' - sorry W)
Seen this loads of times, particularly prevalent at one school who would offer you a job, before your 1st lesson (guess they couldn't care less about the quality of your flying). If all the people who've been fed this BS actually take it all the way through they'll have the largest helicopter instructor base in the UK.
V.
V.
