Female pilots
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I think you will open up a can of worms with this sort of post. I can tell you that I have had PLENTY of trouble trying to train males as well. Maybe it is my technique, or maybe they are just a bit lazy and do not put in the study required/slow learners etc.
I don't think generalising is appropriate!
I don't think generalising is appropriate!
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I've come across quite a few woman pilots both as an instructor and as an airline pilot (should really re-phrase that!)
Suffice it to say that all the professionals were excellent and the good PPLs were better than the blokes.
The poor ones got the message which, unfortunately,bad male pilots don't !
Suffice it to say that all the professionals were excellent and the good PPLs were better than the blokes.
The poor ones got the message which, unfortunately,bad male pilots don't !
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Look, I've been instructing for seven years now as I STILL haven't met a decent female pilot. The most stressful and traumatic trips I have ever done have been with 'the fairer sex'.
I liken their flying technique to their method of driving: panic first, think later.
Honestly, how many women do YOU know who passed their driving test first time, never mind soloing on a PPL course? I don't mean to sound chauvanist in any way, but I really think most females aren't up to the job.
It's a question of attitude: men are single-minded and dedicated to the task, women are always going to be concerned about picking the kids up from school etc. and all the other trivia that concerns their daily lives. Remember, Men used to hunt, women used to housekeep the cave.
Just an opinion.
FC.
I liken their flying technique to their method of driving: panic first, think later.
Honestly, how many women do YOU know who passed their driving test first time, never mind soloing on a PPL course? I don't mean to sound chauvanist in any way, but I really think most females aren't up to the job.
It's a question of attitude: men are single-minded and dedicated to the task, women are always going to be concerned about picking the kids up from school etc. and all the other trivia that concerns their daily lives. Remember, Men used to hunt, women used to housekeep the cave.
Just an opinion.
FC.
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SKYEMONSTER...are you really that stupid???or is that just what you would like people to think?
Generalisations like that are absolute cr@p, and not only do you draw attention both to your personality, and YOUR ability to teach, but you bring the whole profession into shame!!!
I have had a student (male) who never went solo....he had about 60 hours and gave up! I was his fourth or fifth instructor....but the guy was 65 years old, had worries about his business, was keeping it secret from his wife, had trouble finding the money to fly, could not turn his neck to look behind him, etc etc....
This bloke was the most enthusiastic student I ever had, always was on time, always studied what I told him to, actioned the checklists properly etc (and he could drive pretty well)...but just could not grasp the concept of landing!!!
Some people can, and some people can not. All the excuses in the world will be thrown about, but blaming someone for being FEMALE???? come on!!!
Generalisations like that are absolute cr@p, and not only do you draw attention both to your personality, and YOUR ability to teach, but you bring the whole profession into shame!!!
I have had a student (male) who never went solo....he had about 60 hours and gave up! I was his fourth or fifth instructor....but the guy was 65 years old, had worries about his business, was keeping it secret from his wife, had trouble finding the money to fly, could not turn his neck to look behind him, etc etc....
This bloke was the most enthusiastic student I ever had, always was on time, always studied what I told him to, actioned the checklists properly etc (and he could drive pretty well)...but just could not grasp the concept of landing!!!
Some people can, and some people can not. All the excuses in the world will be thrown about, but blaming someone for being FEMALE???? come on!!!
Moderator
I suppose we're not fit to vote either?!?! Barefoot and pregnant would be the ideal...
Fluffy cloud, you seem to be stuck in a wee time warp there. Amy Johnson and co would be turning in their graves...
In my ten years of instructing I've come across good and not so good in men and women. (and the ones that I am convinced must be aliens!!!!)
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Fluffy cloud, you seem to be stuck in a wee time warp there. Amy Johnson and co would be turning in their graves...
In my ten years of instructing I've come across good and not so good in men and women. (and the ones that I am convinced must be aliens!!!!)
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fluffy cloud,
i really hope that your opinion was a joke, and even then you come across as a snivelling little arsewipe.
you are obviously a first class loser and not worth the effort. so i shall move on to whoever posted this stupid topic....if your female student can't go solo after 47 hours then what the hell are you doing instructing, you're obviously useless and you may as well give up while you're already so far behind.
i can't believe this industry is full of such twits as you two. if you want to make posts, how about making constructive, useful, or informative ones from now on...all you achieve is to **** off ALL women pilots and the majority of normal male pilots.
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"if there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph"
i really hope that your opinion was a joke, and even then you come across as a snivelling little arsewipe.
you are obviously a first class loser and not worth the effort. so i shall move on to whoever posted this stupid topic....if your female student can't go solo after 47 hours then what the hell are you doing instructing, you're obviously useless and you may as well give up while you're already so far behind.
i can't believe this industry is full of such twits as you two. if you want to make posts, how about making constructive, useful, or informative ones from now on...all you achieve is to **** off ALL women pilots and the majority of normal male pilots.
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"if there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph"
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skyemonster
I hope your username here doesn't reflect your personality in the aeroplane or that may be the easiest problem to solve (i.e. swap instructors). By the way, did you actually want to say anything about why you felt this (47hrs) was a good thing or a bad thing? Are you on a salary or paid per flight hour?
(all the brains of a)Fluffy (white) Cloud
Ditto
I haven't met a bad female pilot (qualified or student) yet. Generalisations like these, while occasionally useful to start someone off, are damaging to our reputation as instructors. The scariest flights I've had have been with guys who are so dedicated to their task they don't realise it's the wrong task. I've found that while good pilots of either gender are equally good (although in different ways), the bad ones tend to fall along the lines of
male=narrow, intense focus (if any), don't do required tasks (like find the runway)
female= (I'm going on hearsay) focus way too wide and do parts of everything all at once
I screwed up my Restricted Drivers licence test the first time and I don't have tits. I managed to drive onto the kerb outside the Police station trying to parallel park after a nightmare of a test. If I had been given proper instruction it definitely would not have happened because I simply hadn't been taught what to do.
So what? I don't know any females who stuffed it up, ceratinly not with the same flair
I think it is a question of attitude as well, but I don't think that only the student's attitude matters. If you treat students like they can fly the aeroplane but need to believe in themselves a bit more, show them they can fly and let them get on with it. If not then refer them somewhere else.
BTW, what specific problems is she having? We may be able to help you know.
Safe flying
I hope your username here doesn't reflect your personality in the aeroplane or that may be the easiest problem to solve (i.e. swap instructors). By the way, did you actually want to say anything about why you felt this (47hrs) was a good thing or a bad thing? Are you on a salary or paid per flight hour?
(all the brains of a)Fluffy (white) Cloud
Ditto
I haven't met a bad female pilot (qualified or student) yet. Generalisations like these, while occasionally useful to start someone off, are damaging to our reputation as instructors. The scariest flights I've had have been with guys who are so dedicated to their task they don't realise it's the wrong task. I've found that while good pilots of either gender are equally good (although in different ways), the bad ones tend to fall along the lines of
male=narrow, intense focus (if any), don't do required tasks (like find the runway)
female= (I'm going on hearsay) focus way too wide and do parts of everything all at once
I screwed up my Restricted Drivers licence test the first time and I don't have tits. I managed to drive onto the kerb outside the Police station trying to parallel park after a nightmare of a test. If I had been given proper instruction it definitely would not have happened because I simply hadn't been taught what to do.
So what? I don't know any females who stuffed it up, ceratinly not with the same flair
I think it is a question of attitude as well, but I don't think that only the student's attitude matters. If you treat students like they can fly the aeroplane but need to believe in themselves a bit more, show them they can fly and let them get on with it. If not then refer them somewhere else.
BTW, what specific problems is she having? We may be able to help you know.
Safe flying
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Skyemonster, whilst you are at it, perhaps you could enlighten us as to all the women pilots who are employed in airlines (how 4000 of them got through the system I'll never know) who have been directly involved in crashes.
And perhaps also the number of men. And perhaps the number of men involved in manslaughter charges against them due to their incompetent or just plain dangerous flying.
Oh, and what happened to that chap in his Tigermoth who disappeared a couple of years ago, CROSSING THE CHANNEL. I mean, he could see the land on the other side and he still managed to get lost???
You get my point I am sure.
I have a suspicious feeling that Skyemonster maybe used to be throber69? Same sort of attitude.
Anyway Skyemonster, you do not live in the real world at all I'm afraid, as previously said, if your student is failing then look to the instructor.
In the world that I inhabit, that is the airline industry, there are plenty of women pilots employed. Everybody gets the same twice yearly sim check and the same annual line check. If someone isn't up to scratch, they don't get through and have to undertake some retraining. As yet, I have heard of no women failing in my company.
Are you also going to suggest that the training captains involved are incompetent in letting these women through?
And perhaps also the number of men. And perhaps the number of men involved in manslaughter charges against them due to their incompetent or just plain dangerous flying.
Oh, and what happened to that chap in his Tigermoth who disappeared a couple of years ago, CROSSING THE CHANNEL. I mean, he could see the land on the other side and he still managed to get lost???
You get my point I am sure.
I have a suspicious feeling that Skyemonster maybe used to be throber69? Same sort of attitude.
Anyway Skyemonster, you do not live in the real world at all I'm afraid, as previously said, if your student is failing then look to the instructor.
In the world that I inhabit, that is the airline industry, there are plenty of women pilots employed. Everybody gets the same twice yearly sim check and the same annual line check. If someone isn't up to scratch, they don't get through and have to undertake some retraining. As yet, I have heard of no women failing in my company.
Are you also going to suggest that the training captains involved are incompetent in letting these women through?
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Pilots are like drivers, some can some can't.
I have taught quite a few people to fly and have found that the females were the most pleasant to fly with.
Yes they do keep you on your toes, only because their ego doesn't get in the way and they will ask questions, even ones that most men would consider dumb. Remember there are no dumb questions, just stupid mistakes!
Without female pilots the smell of testosterone would be over powering!
I have taught quite a few people to fly and have found that the females were the most pleasant to fly with.
Yes they do keep you on your toes, only because their ego doesn't get in the way and they will ask questions, even ones that most men would consider dumb. Remember there are no dumb questions, just stupid mistakes!
Without female pilots the smell of testosterone would be over powering!
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Best Student: Sarah, 28, 8.9 hours to Solo (spread over three months)
Worst Student: Denis, 55, 45.8 hours to solo.
This is despite the fact that I could hardly talk to Sarah because my tongue was lolling uselessly out the side of my mouth.
Warwick Renton if you let her go you're a fool!!!
I have found the same basic personalities in both Male and Female flight students and Elk McPherson alluded to them a lillte while ago: Some are dreamers, some are doers.
The middle aged "Dreamer" types are often the hardest to teach, keen as they are to float amongst the pretty fluffy clouds and reluctant to do any work or study towards it.
Without a doubt, the best instructors I have known (both as a student and as an employer) have been WOMEN.
Worst Student: Denis, 55, 45.8 hours to solo.
This is despite the fact that I could hardly talk to Sarah because my tongue was lolling uselessly out the side of my mouth.
Warwick Renton if you let her go you're a fool!!!
I have found the same basic personalities in both Male and Female flight students and Elk McPherson alluded to them a lillte while ago: Some are dreamers, some are doers.
The middle aged "Dreamer" types are often the hardest to teach, keen as they are to float amongst the pretty fluffy clouds and reluctant to do any work or study towards it.
Without a doubt, the best instructors I have known (both as a student and as an employer) have been WOMEN.
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Ohhh FC which world do you live in?? I have to say that my first student was a female and she is an excellent pilot. I also had a female studetn who went solo in less than 8 hrs and she had 18 hrs of solo time out of 43 when she went for her skill test, a record in our school no one has broken yet.
At the same time I would like to say one thing that I have noticed. I think all the females students I've had were perfectionists. They all wanted greesers all the time and wanted everything done the perfect way, not a bad thing to aim for but could be discouraging some times when you dont get the results. Where as in case of guys sometime EGO plays a big role in getting them through a proble. Just an observation.
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My mascot is a bumblebee. Because of its tiny wings and heavy body, aerodynamically the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly. But the bumblebee doesn't know that, so it flies anyway.
At the same time I would like to say one thing that I have noticed. I think all the females students I've had were perfectionists. They all wanted greesers all the time and wanted everything done the perfect way, not a bad thing to aim for but could be discouraging some times when you dont get the results. Where as in case of guys sometime EGO plays a big role in getting them through a proble. Just an observation.
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My mascot is a bumblebee. Because of its tiny wings and heavy body, aerodynamically the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly. But the bumblebee doesn't know that, so it flies anyway.
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Some people are quick to criticise the student when they don't achieve a certain milestone when we think they should. Skyemonster, if I were her instructor, I would be asking myself "What am I doing wrong?" You obviously haven't.
I had a female student that took over 100 hours to gain her UPPL (yes, she was more 'senior', and we know senior people take longer to teach, regardless of gender). Yes, I flew her with other instructors, as I had doubts about my technique. The feedback from other instructors was simply that she would take longer to train- no underlying deficiencies on either persons part.
She felt more comfortable flying with me, so we agreed to continue until her training was complete.
The ATO who tested her informed me that she was one of the best candidates he had ever tested for a PPL. That says it all IMHO.
Fluffy Cloud: Obviously, after instructing for 7 years, you haven't realised you're in the wrong profession. I've never flown with a woman who fits your description in previous posts. Perhaps it's your "instructing style" that makes them feel that way???
REDDO, MACCA, help me out here!!
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JARSE! Pull and rotate 90 degrees
[This message has been edited by Hugh Jarse (edited 09 April 2000).]
I had a female student that took over 100 hours to gain her UPPL (yes, she was more 'senior', and we know senior people take longer to teach, regardless of gender). Yes, I flew her with other instructors, as I had doubts about my technique. The feedback from other instructors was simply that she would take longer to train- no underlying deficiencies on either persons part.
She felt more comfortable flying with me, so we agreed to continue until her training was complete.
The ATO who tested her informed me that she was one of the best candidates he had ever tested for a PPL. That says it all IMHO.
Fluffy Cloud: Obviously, after instructing for 7 years, you haven't realised you're in the wrong profession. I've never flown with a woman who fits your description in previous posts. Perhaps it's your "instructing style" that makes them feel that way???
REDDO, MACCA, help me out here!!
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JARSE! Pull and rotate 90 degrees
[This message has been edited by Hugh Jarse (edited 09 April 2000).]
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I notice that Skyemonster has not responded to any of the replies. I suspect that we have all fallen into the trap of responding and thereby admitting that sexism exists. The gender is irrelevant and it is a generalisation to suggest that one sex performs better than another.
By the way what gender is Skyemonster?
By the way what gender is Skyemonster?