Very short trial lessons from large crowded airfields.
The Original Whirly
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Very short trial lessons from large crowded airfields.
I'm a newish and part time rotary FI(R) at a large and quite crowded airfield, usually at weekends. I mainly do trial lessons/air experience flights, which is fine by me; I get more experience myself, get paid to fly, and enjoy putting a huge smile on people's faces. 
But.....
If they book with the school, they do half an hour or an hour, which is fine. But some of them book through Red Letter Days, and it's 25 minutes. I even had one yesterday from some similar outfit that was 20 minutes!
Now, the problem I have is trying to give them enough in such a short time that they don't feel shortchanged. Bear in mind the time is from start up to shut down, and helicopters take a few minutes to start up and shut down. ATC expect us to taxi out to the "H" and takeoff and re-join in the circuit along with the f/w traffic; we can't just lift and go at this airfield. It's quite a long way to hover-taxi, and sometimes we have to hold for other traffic etc. Once we depart, Tower passes me to Approach and back again, all in double quick time.
Between all this I try to let the student have a go, at least at flying straight and level...no way we can even attempt to try hovering in such a short time. But the 20 minute one ended up being one wide circuit; in fact, I told the tower when I booked out that I'd be doing that, as there seemed no other way to fit it in.
What I usually do is give them a briefing; then if they seem interested talk all through the start-up, telling them what's happening etc, then let them follow me through right from lifting into the hover. That way, even if they don't get to do much flying, hopefully they feel as though they've had more hands-on experience than they actually have. I play it by ear; if they look like they just want to look at the view and take it all in, I try to leave them to it. But sometimes I wonder if I'm talking too much, and maybe I should let the flight speak for itself; it is an Air Experience Flight after all. They seem happy - all but one who was terrified and we had to go back - but who knows.
Anyone have any other good ideas?
But.....If they book with the school, they do half an hour or an hour, which is fine. But some of them book through Red Letter Days, and it's 25 minutes. I even had one yesterday from some similar outfit that was 20 minutes!
Now, the problem I have is trying to give them enough in such a short time that they don't feel shortchanged. Bear in mind the time is from start up to shut down, and helicopters take a few minutes to start up and shut down. ATC expect us to taxi out to the "H" and takeoff and re-join in the circuit along with the f/w traffic; we can't just lift and go at this airfield. It's quite a long way to hover-taxi, and sometimes we have to hold for other traffic etc. Once we depart, Tower passes me to Approach and back again, all in double quick time.
Between all this I try to let the student have a go, at least at flying straight and level...no way we can even attempt to try hovering in such a short time. But the 20 minute one ended up being one wide circuit; in fact, I told the tower when I booked out that I'd be doing that, as there seemed no other way to fit it in.What I usually do is give them a briefing; then if they seem interested talk all through the start-up, telling them what's happening etc, then let them follow me through right from lifting into the hover. That way, even if they don't get to do much flying, hopefully they feel as though they've had more hands-on experience than they actually have. I play it by ear; if they look like they just want to look at the view and take it all in, I try to leave them to it. But sometimes I wonder if I'm talking too much, and maybe I should let the flight speak for itself; it is an Air Experience Flight after all. They seem happy - all but one who was terrified and we had to go back
- but who knows.Anyone have any other good ideas?
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Whirly,
The requirement for you to use the same procedures as fw sounds a bit strange - maybe it's a noise abatement thing.
At Barton we have two helicopter training schools - their traffic fits in nicely - they lift , air taxi and cross the active runway and then route out, usually to the North at low level (i.e. below 500ft). This works really well and means that we don't need to worry about rotor vortex as much. About one or two minutes from lift to being out of the ATZ.
Perhaps you should raise the issue with ATC and see if they can accomodate you in a different way.
I had a helicopter trial lesson for a present a couple of years ago, it was half an hour but managed to fit in standard flight and hovering no problem (welll the timing wasn't - the actual hovering was for me !)
The requirement for you to use the same procedures as fw sounds a bit strange - maybe it's a noise abatement thing.
At Barton we have two helicopter training schools - their traffic fits in nicely - they lift , air taxi and cross the active runway and then route out, usually to the North at low level (i.e. below 500ft). This works really well and means that we don't need to worry about rotor vortex as much. About one or two minutes from lift to being out of the ATZ.
Perhaps you should raise the issue with ATC and see if they can accomodate you in a different way.
I had a helicopter trial lesson for a present a couple of years ago, it was half an hour but managed to fit in standard flight and hovering no problem (welll the timing wasn't - the actual hovering was for me
!)
The Original Whirly
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Squadgy,
Helicopter procedures are different at every airfield I've flown from (and to). Some have specific procedures for rotary traffic; quite a few want you to do the same as the f/w traffic. For various reasons, I'm sure we won't get things changed at this particular airfield; we'll have to live with it. At the other airfield where I instruct occasionally, which is small and A/G radio, we can be away in seconds, and half an hour is loads of time. It's this particular scenario that I'm wondering about, and is there a better way of handling it. Unfortunately changing things completely is not an option.
Helicopter procedures are different at every airfield I've flown from (and to). Some have specific procedures for rotary traffic; quite a few want you to do the same as the f/w traffic. For various reasons, I'm sure we won't get things changed at this particular airfield; we'll have to live with it. At the other airfield where I instruct occasionally, which is small and A/G radio, we can be away in seconds, and half an hour is loads of time. It's this particular scenario that I'm wondering about, and is there a better way of handling it. Unfortunately changing things completely is not an option.
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Get your club not to accept these red letter type flights.
They overcharge their customers then try to screw the club down to the last penny.
The customer is often suprised to find they could have had an hours flight for what they had paid.
Also you are putting as much effort as a one hour t/l but without the financial reward.
They overcharge their customers then try to screw the club down to the last penny.
The customer is often suprised to find they could have had an hours flight for what they had paid.
Also you are putting as much effort as a one hour t/l but without the financial reward.
Last edited by BigEndBob; 7th Aug 2004 at 10:21.
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Whirly,
Maybe have a chat with your club management? My school charge brakes-off to brakes-on, unless there is a large ATC delay in which case they charge take-off to touch-down plus 10 minutes - could you convince them to do something like this? Came in very handy at the weekend when I was doing a 30-minute trial lesson and had to spend 20 minutes at the hold waiting for departure. (The student didn't mind at all, though, since the traffic we were holding for included a Spitfire and a Hurricane taking off in formation, and we had a perfect view!)
FFF
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Maybe have a chat with your club management? My school charge brakes-off to brakes-on, unless there is a large ATC delay in which case they charge take-off to touch-down plus 10 minutes - could you convince them to do something like this? Came in very handy at the weekend when I was doing a 30-minute trial lesson and had to spend 20 minutes at the hold waiting for departure. (The student didn't mind at all, though, since the traffic we were holding for included a Spitfire and a Hurricane taking off in formation, and we had a perfect view!)
FFF
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