Max hours a month question
Guest
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Max hours a month question
Ummm, some people say to me that you can only instruct 100hrs in 28 days. Other people say that it doesn't apply until you are flying heavy (non-training) aircraft. I've seen two bits of CAA paper which seem to contradict each other. Whats the real deal chaps? Thanks in advance, WWW
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This is an interesting question WWW, mainly coz I am also unsure! When I instructed there were no restrictions, and instructing on the RAF scholarship thing, good job too! Even as a 509 instructor we had no duty/flying limitations, and I am pretty sure it is still the same, maybe JAA will change things though. In reality, to get anywhere near the max is going some. As a 509 instructor I did 80hrs a month for 3 months in a row, (good bonus!) but that was 6 days a week from dawn until dusk, with all the pre flight and post flight briefings, very tiring. In the mean time, fill your boots mate, no one is going to stop you at the moment!
Guest
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Yeah, actually I want someone to stop me. I'm just under the 100hr a month mark at the moment and I don't want to go over yet the school owner is unsympathetic to fellow instructors who are unhappy at doing 110hrs a month. I'm not going to do it because I am getting tired and that is just too dangerous. WWW
Guest
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as far as I know, no limit on instructing but the moment you do a PF, the rest of your instructing that day is governed by FTLs.,but how that works out in respect of 100 and 900pa.,not sure - I think the only protection we have is in a duty day - if you do an AOC flight rest of day is governed
Guest
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as far as I know, no limit on instructing but the moment you do a PF, the rest of your instructing that day is governed by FTLs.,but how that works out in respect of 100 and 900pa.,not sure - I think the only protection we have is in a duty day - if you do an AOC flight rest of day is governed
Guest
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MY previous reply lost? As far as I know, no limit on instructing but as soon as you do a PF or AOC flight all remaining flights that day are covered by FTLS per your AOC ops manual - but that does not accumulate or affect 100 and 900 pa - just that day so always start off with a PF
Guest
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WWW,
Where are you working to be doing 100+ p/mth?
What are the new rules if any re: AFI, QFI ratings under the new JAR.
I am NZ C-Category Instructor with right to abode in UK and am considering the UK scene but once again the money grabbers want what they can get so unlikely. In NZ, a good, busy instructor at NZ busiest GA airfield (Ardmore) will do on average 40 p/mth some get up to 60+, but 100!!! unheard of!!
Where are you working to be doing 100+ p/mth?
What are the new rules if any re: AFI, QFI ratings under the new JAR.
I am NZ C-Category Instructor with right to abode in UK and am considering the UK scene but once again the money grabbers want what they can get so unlikely. In NZ, a good, busy instructor at NZ busiest GA airfield (Ardmore) will do on average 40 p/mth some get up to 60+, but 100!!! unheard of!!
Guest
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Cessnaboy
Dont know if this helps but if you are already a CAA AFI you can upgrade to JAR FI (sort of equivalent to QFI but without the ability to teach IMC)with 100hours instructional (excluding trials) plus 25 solo flights briefed and a fee of £55. Cant help with details on converting a foriegn instructor qualification but a JAR FI course will cost about £4K.
100 hours a month during the summer is perfectly possible due to more daylight, I did 90 last month but that compares with just 35-40 during Dec,Jan and Feb. This however is at a controlled field with rationed slot times even for GA traffic, a club strip would afford even more work.
Dont know if this helps but if you are already a CAA AFI you can upgrade to JAR FI (sort of equivalent to QFI but without the ability to teach IMC)with 100hours instructional (excluding trials) plus 25 solo flights briefed and a fee of £55. Cant help with details on converting a foriegn instructor qualification but a JAR FI course will cost about £4K.
100 hours a month during the summer is perfectly possible due to more daylight, I did 90 last month but that compares with just 35-40 during Dec,Jan and Feb. This however is at a controlled field with rationed slot times even for GA traffic, a club strip would afford even more work.
Guest
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It doesn't seem to make much difference when the max hours are laid down.
I'm told that someone at the major 509 school has made an observation on the contradictions between the companies policy ( 8/9hr day normal, mandatory crew rest after long shifts, 100hrs in 28 days etc)and the 12/15 hour days routinely done and the many instructors who regularly work 6/7 day weeks to achieve the dreaded bonus. My nephew say that with the hot weather students on long xc are already commenting on the 'eyelid inspection' going on in the air. Supposedly these long hours are actively encouraged despite the direct breach of the ops manual.
The serious questions raised are insurance and legal liability. What will YOU tell the coroner or worse.
I imagine the brave/foolish idiot who raised this problem will soon be invited to depart to new pastures - no connection of course.
The chairman of the instructors union has already been told by management that "continuing to be involved with the *** *** *** Association will harm his career".
I'm told that someone at the major 509 school has made an observation on the contradictions between the companies policy ( 8/9hr day normal, mandatory crew rest after long shifts, 100hrs in 28 days etc)and the 12/15 hour days routinely done and the many instructors who regularly work 6/7 day weeks to achieve the dreaded bonus. My nephew say that with the hot weather students on long xc are already commenting on the 'eyelid inspection' going on in the air. Supposedly these long hours are actively encouraged despite the direct breach of the ops manual.
The serious questions raised are insurance and legal liability. What will YOU tell the coroner or worse.
I imagine the brave/foolish idiot who raised this problem will soon be invited to depart to new pastures - no connection of course.
The chairman of the instructors union has already been told by management that "continuing to be involved with the *** *** *** Association will harm his career".
Does this mean that the UK doesn't have mandatory flight & duty time limits for commercial work, or that it does have them, but they don't apply to instructing?
Does this have something to do with the "PPLs instructing PPLs" thing that you do in the UK?
Does this have something to do with the "PPLs instructing PPLs" thing that you do in the UK?
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Checkboard,
Mandatory rules do apply.... but not to instructors... unless you do a trial lesson (perhaps). The issue is clouded. Big schools lay down a policy, usually the same as the legal limit for commercial pilots, but I think this is just to bluff sponsors,students and of course the CAA. Its worse with small outfits, but its a while since I've worked with either. My aquaintance who works for the very big school in UK has worked really stupid duty hours but flown relatively little due to lack of a/c or students. He/She is paid less than I was 10 years ago for the same job.
[This message has been edited by capt beeky (edited 18 June 1999).]
Mandatory rules do apply.... but not to instructors... unless you do a trial lesson (perhaps). The issue is clouded. Big schools lay down a policy, usually the same as the legal limit for commercial pilots, but I think this is just to bluff sponsors,students and of course the CAA. Its worse with small outfits, but its a while since I've worked with either. My aquaintance who works for the very big school in UK has worked really stupid duty hours but flown relatively little due to lack of a/c or students. He/She is paid less than I was 10 years ago for the same job.
[This message has been edited by capt beeky (edited 18 June 1999).]
Guest
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Well my situation is this. I have A/c and students to fly about 120hrs in the last 28 days. My school needs me to fly these hours. I have flown several days at 7.5 or 8 hours in a day. I've decided that this is not sensible and thus I am going to limit myself to 100hrs in 28 days and unless there is a very good reason I'm not going to fly more than 6 hours a day. The law is vague and the rules unclear.
The structure of employment whereby I am paid by the hour and am motivated to log as many hours as possible positively encourages me to fly reagardless of fatigue considerations. This seems rather silly.
At the end of the day I cannot be sat in an airline interview and seriously talk about being safety concious etc if my logbook is screaming evidence of flying when totally knackered. Also there's no-one watching my back in the cockpit and I've started to notice little mistakes creeping in like forgetting to put the fuel pump on when teching PFL's (yesterday morning at the end of a v.busy week) and that is just not on.
Happy and safe flying everyone, WWW
The structure of employment whereby I am paid by the hour and am motivated to log as many hours as possible positively encourages me to fly reagardless of fatigue considerations. This seems rather silly.
At the end of the day I cannot be sat in an airline interview and seriously talk about being safety concious etc if my logbook is screaming evidence of flying when totally knackered. Also there's no-one watching my back in the cockpit and I've started to notice little mistakes creeping in like forgetting to put the fuel pump on when teching PFL's (yesterday morning at the end of a v.busy week) and that is just not on.
Happy and safe flying everyone, WWW
Guest
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WWW
Congrats on your sensible attitude. Your employer ought to be happy with it, but in my experience they rarely pass more than lip service to flightsafety. servicability, or fatigue. I once saw a Director of a medium size training organisation up north going around the fleet replacing the landing lights with blown ones "as an economy measure". He felt our practice of using them for conspicuity was wastefull. The same guy slept on most of his dual xc with students, even once on a NFT.
Congrats on your sensible attitude. Your employer ought to be happy with it, but in my experience they rarely pass more than lip service to flightsafety. servicability, or fatigue. I once saw a Director of a medium size training organisation up north going around the fleet replacing the landing lights with blown ones "as an economy measure". He felt our practice of using them for conspicuity was wastefull. The same guy slept on most of his dual xc with students, even once on a NFT.
Guest
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WWW,
Come back and join the mob! All the landing lights work and even the tail strobe is in good working order.
Remember the days when the rules were:
6 hours per day
20 hours per week
60 hours per month
and into the Mess for tiffin!
But seriously, take care as I know how knackered I feel after a long day instructing.
Vigi
Come back and join the mob! All the landing lights work and even the tail strobe is in good working order.
Remember the days when the rules were:
6 hours per day
20 hours per week
60 hours per month
and into the Mess for tiffin!
But seriously, take care as I know how knackered I feel after a long day instructing.
Vigi
Guest
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WWW, you're spot on with limiting your hours - You don't need to be told about the safety considerations or the fact that your students aren'tgettingtheir money's worth.
Here in Oz you're only limited to 6 hrs instruction per day - beyond that, standard flight duty time limitations apply. Lately during an AOC application process CASA Ops Inspectors were telling me that FDT's apply to Prvate Pilots too!
Go Figure...
Here in Oz you're only limited to 6 hrs instruction per day - beyond that, standard flight duty time limitations apply. Lately during an AOC application process CASA Ops Inspectors were telling me that FDT's apply to Prvate Pilots too!
Go Figure...
Guest
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I believe the CAA rules are that the maximum "commercial" hours you may do per month is 100. As an airline pilot, I know that we are not allowed to do any flying outside of work, unless it is private flying on a light aircraft (unless we get written agreement and inform the company of all additional hours).
Guest
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Just to set the cat amongst the pigeons, I, along with nearly all of my colleagues used to fly well over a hundred hours per month on a regular basis during the summer. This was positively encouraged by the Boss, along with little or no time off.......One summer not too long a go, I went three and a half months without a day off and on one of those months logged 120 hrs....
This as has been mentioned is not exactly ideal, however, as far as I'm aware there are no CAA rules against it as the CAA have had my logbook on several occasions and never raised it with me...
This as has been mentioned is not exactly ideal, however, as far as I'm aware there are no CAA rules against it as the CAA have had my logbook on several occasions and never raised it with me...