U.S. Trained Flight Insructors
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Or maybe they feel that it is their calling....they are really Angels....after all, someones gotta teach you guys how to fly properly.
I've noticed that very few US instructors commented on the thread regarding proper navigational techniques....why is that???
Doesn't the GARMIN handbook tell you how to read a map?
The word that sums up US trained PPL's and QFI's is - SLOPPY.
I make no apologies for my views, but if you want to change them....send out some pilots who can fly accurately,navigate properly, and have some idea about flight planning/met/air law and radio procedures!
I plan to be around for a few years yet...so take your time trying to find one!!!
I've noticed that very few US instructors commented on the thread regarding proper navigational techniques....why is that???
Doesn't the GARMIN handbook tell you how to read a map?
The word that sums up US trained PPL's and QFI's is - SLOPPY.
I make no apologies for my views, but if you want to change them....send out some pilots who can fly accurately,navigate properly, and have some idea about flight planning/met/air law and radio procedures!
I plan to be around for a few years yet...so take your time trying to find one!!!
Glasgow's Gallus Gigolo .... PPRuNeing is like making love to a beautiful woman ... I take hours.
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dicko, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the Limeys who instruct with you and want to keep flying in the US, were trained in the US. Most of the UK-trained QFIs I worked with in the US viewed it as either a temporary thing, or as the last job before retirement.
Maybe some see it as easier to get thee first job, but once I had the experience to get a 146 job, I took it- I didn't want to fly J41s and get food stamps to stay alive!
(Although the girls were nice, yes.......but so are the Italians/Spanish/German/Austrian/ Dutch/Irish/Finnish/Swiss/French who I met or worked with flying round Europe!
Getting dangerously off topic here, I'd better go to JB for a while.......
Maybe some see it as easier to get thee first job, but once I had the experience to get a 146 job, I took it- I didn't want to fly J41s and get food stamps to stay alive!
(Although the girls were nice, yes.......but so are the Italians/Spanish/German/Austrian/ Dutch/Irish/Finnish/Swiss/French who I met or worked with flying round Europe!
Getting dangerously off topic here, I'd better go to JB for a while.......
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As an ex chief CFI for a US company that trained mainly european students (mostly British), I must agree with BEagle. They delighted in showing me their study books and in telling me how much more they had to learn in merry old England.But they were here. When I arrived,some thought I was the new secretary (I am female) It took 2 months to be accepted, answering silly questions that I knew the answers to. Some arguments were taken to the FAA to resolve, even though I showed them in the regs or manuals. Yes those Brits are full of themselves. The basic idea in airplanes is "push forward, the houses get bigger, pull back the houses get smaller, pull too far back they get bigger real fast" One does not need to know how every valve and circuit operates to be a good pilot just as one does not need to know about LAN and WAN and server technology to use a computer.
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eX-Chief CFI, X-ATC,AVN map maker,F
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eX-Chief CFI, X-ATC,AVN map maker,F
Glasgow's Gallus Gigolo .... PPRuNeing is like making love to a beautiful woman ... I take hours.
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Dreamer, the trouble with the US system (from a head-up-ass Brit perspective) is that it assumes a level of support that is not always available.
An example from a US colleague (totally FAA licenced, but later approved as a CAP509 instructor by the CAA):
In the US system, you put your deicing gear on if it is snowing because FAR number x subsection y clause z says put the deicing gear on.
In the CAA/JAA system, you put the deic9ing gear on because your Met groundschool includes a lot about causes of, and when you are most likely to encounter, airframe or engine icing.
Between instructing and airline flying, I reckon I have actually used less than half of what I learned in CPL and ATPL groundschool. But some of it has been VERY useful, and occasionally potentially lifesaving. Why do even commuter airlines have to ask so many tech and operating questions at interview? Because under the FAA system, it is impossible to know if the applicant actually KNOWS anything! And when you have multiple system failures over the Alps after the toilet blows up, with more systems going off line as the Blue Goo drips down the avionics bay, it's comforting to know where the relevant boxes are, what's likely to fail next, and what extra landing distance you're going to need without flaps (yeah, the NHP can check the book, but as the autopilot was first to fail, you don't want to waste a lot of time on that).
Yeah, your system works for you, but don't assume it's the best in the world. In Europe, an FAA ticket on its own is worth slightly less than a laundry receipt.
An example from a US colleague (totally FAA licenced, but later approved as a CAP509 instructor by the CAA):
In the US system, you put your deicing gear on if it is snowing because FAR number x subsection y clause z says put the deicing gear on.
In the CAA/JAA system, you put the deic9ing gear on because your Met groundschool includes a lot about causes of, and when you are most likely to encounter, airframe or engine icing.
Between instructing and airline flying, I reckon I have actually used less than half of what I learned in CPL and ATPL groundschool. But some of it has been VERY useful, and occasionally potentially lifesaving. Why do even commuter airlines have to ask so many tech and operating questions at interview? Because under the FAA system, it is impossible to know if the applicant actually KNOWS anything! And when you have multiple system failures over the Alps after the toilet blows up, with more systems going off line as the Blue Goo drips down the avionics bay, it's comforting to know where the relevant boxes are, what's likely to fail next, and what extra landing distance you're going to need without flaps (yeah, the NHP can check the book, but as the autopilot was first to fail, you don't want to waste a lot of time on that).
Yeah, your system works for you, but don't assume it's the best in the world. In Europe, an FAA ticket on its own is worth slightly less than a laundry receipt.
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"In the US system, you put your deicing gear on if it is snowing because FAR number x subsection y clause z says put the deicing gear on."
Hmm..yeah, and what about Company Ops Specs and a bit of commonsense? If you see ice build up (1/4"+) and you are flying into unforcast weather (do I hear "Flightwatch"?), I think I'd like to activate the boots and pitot heat.
Hmm..yeah, and what about Company Ops Specs and a bit of commonsense? If you see ice build up (1/4"+) and you are flying into unforcast weather (do I hear "Flightwatch"?), I think I'd like to activate the boots and pitot heat.
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Congrat's Sensible...
Some pilots have to assure themselves about their knowledge and flying abilities.
I'd say this bashing of US trained or US pilots is a sort of P enis envy displayed by frustrated individuals who are desperately trying to prove their ability to others.
Merry Christmas and happy new year.
JJ
Some pilots have to assure themselves about their knowledge and flying abilities.
I'd say this bashing of US trained or US pilots is a sort of P enis envy displayed by frustrated individuals who are desperately trying to prove their ability to others.
Merry Christmas and happy new year.
JJ
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"Is anybody going to congratulate me for managing to read through so many postings put out by self opinionated Brits with egos bigger than their d**ks !!"
I'm afraid that's not saying very much 'sensible'!
Right on 'JJ Flyer'. Couldn't agree with you more.
I'm afraid that's not saying very much 'sensible'!
Right on 'JJ Flyer'. Couldn't agree with you more.
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Its amazing how reasoned debate goes right over the heads of our american cousins! I see nothing but accurate information in Homesick's posting, why can we all not just agree that we have different systems between the USA and the UK, without the americans thinking we are having a go at them? I must say from my time in the USA, they would not be able to tell the difference anyway...!
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I have just browsed this thread, and just want to make a few minor points of my own. I learned to fly a good few years ago, in Dallas, to FAA standards. I was fortunate that my instructor was an ex- Royal Navy Harrier pilot, who taught me to a very high standard. This meant that although I learnt the FAA FARs and flew the FAA syllabus, I was taught to exercise airmanship and planning to UK standards. It should not be assumed that just because an individual has a piece of paper issued by a non UK/European state that the standards of flying will not be of an acceptable standard. I have subsequently flown in the UK and hold both a CAA/FAA licences, together with various add ons including multi. I have to admit, that I have seen very sloppy flying techniques demonstrated by both European and US pilots and instructors, but the real gauge of competence should be in the level of skill demonstrated by a pilot during the necessary check flights.
I fly resonably regularly in the UK, operating from Shoreham, but I find that many of the attitudes held by ATC/Operators/Clubs here make flying less pleasurable, and a damn-sight more difficult than operating out of the busy airspace at, say, Long Beach, and in and around LAX.
I have frequently hired twins in the US, and have been checked out by many different instructors, and have only had one instructor who in my opinion was ineffective. The others have been dedicated professionals, usually ex USAF etc, from whom I learnt a great deal. To make sweeping generalisations is rash, and does our industry no favours. and before anyone asks, No, I am not American or Canadian, just another FI enjoying pprune.
Tailwinds, and a merry christmas to all
I fly resonably regularly in the UK, operating from Shoreham, but I find that many of the attitudes held by ATC/Operators/Clubs here make flying less pleasurable, and a damn-sight more difficult than operating out of the busy airspace at, say, Long Beach, and in and around LAX.
I have frequently hired twins in the US, and have been checked out by many different instructors, and have only had one instructor who in my opinion was ineffective. The others have been dedicated professionals, usually ex USAF etc, from whom I learnt a great deal. To make sweeping generalisations is rash, and does our industry no favours. and before anyone asks, No, I am not American or Canadian, just another FI enjoying pprune.
Tailwinds, and a merry christmas to all
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Boys, what a lot of bickering!
BEagle/Rolling Circle - a point of trivia regarding Chippy/Bulldog Descending 2 approach techniques. The Bulldog uses/used the control the flight path with the atiitude and speed with the throttle or 'point and squirt' technique as it is the technique used by nearly all RAF aircraft, so it makes sense to teach it at an early stage. The Chippy, even to the end of it's life as a primary trainer used the attitude controls speed, power controls rate of descent technique, largely due to the approach speed being 60 knots and the land flap limiting speed being 71 knots. Even with land flap, it was still quite a slippery little aircraft and the limit could easily be bust.
Oh, and American trained pilots know little of flying attitudes - even the Military trained ones!
BEagle/Rolling Circle - a point of trivia regarding Chippy/Bulldog Descending 2 approach techniques. The Bulldog uses/used the control the flight path with the atiitude and speed with the throttle or 'point and squirt' technique as it is the technique used by nearly all RAF aircraft, so it makes sense to teach it at an early stage. The Chippy, even to the end of it's life as a primary trainer used the attitude controls speed, power controls rate of descent technique, largely due to the approach speed being 60 knots and the land flap limiting speed being 71 knots. Even with land flap, it was still quite a slippery little aircraft and the limit could easily be bust.
Oh, and American trained pilots know little of flying attitudes - even the Military trained ones!
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Diesel8, many of the US instructors I have talked to have denied knowledge of teaching "attitudes" as a means of controlling the aircraft.
If there is some alternative way of phrasing this, but getting the same point across, it would be helpful if you would say so, instead of resorting to pointless abuse. If pointless abuse is what you want from PPRuNe, can I suggest you take it to JB?
If there is some alternative way of phrasing this, but getting the same point across, it would be helpful if you would say so, instead of resorting to pointless abuse. If pointless abuse is what you want from PPRuNe, can I suggest you take it to JB?