Best qualifications for instructing
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Join Date: Sep 2001
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Best qualifications for instructing
I am coming to flying instruction as a second career and would value guidance from those already in the business. (I am aware that the money is rotten, but with a pension from my previous career and my pittance from flying, I should be able to have a reasonable standard of living). My dilema, however, is as follows.
I have two options. Either I can go for the minimum qualifications of a full CPL (as I want to get paid for my work) and an FI rating. Or with comparatively little extra work, but significantly more expense, I can get a 'frozen' ATPL and FI rating, (which I can later build up into a full ATPL).
I have omitted mention of the multi engine and instrument ratings to simplify the question, although I do intend to obtain these also as funds permit.
As I see it, the latter is preferable as many of the FTOs will be catering for students who intend to proceed to airline flying and will prefer an instructor who has at least passed ATPL groundschool.
I should be most grateful for any comments on the above from the professionals.
Best regards,
I have two options. Either I can go for the minimum qualifications of a full CPL (as I want to get paid for my work) and an FI rating. Or with comparatively little extra work, but significantly more expense, I can get a 'frozen' ATPL and FI rating, (which I can later build up into a full ATPL).
I have omitted mention of the multi engine and instrument ratings to simplify the question, although I do intend to obtain these also as funds permit.
As I see it, the latter is preferable as many of the FTOs will be catering for students who intend to proceed to airline flying and will prefer an instructor who has at least passed ATPL groundschool.
I should be most grateful for any comments on the above from the professionals.
Best regards,
Join Date: Nov 1999
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BP,
Do the ATPLs. You'll regret it later on if you don't, and decide you want an airline career after all. The last thing in the world you want to have to do is sit all those bloody exams twice.
ST
Do the ATPLs. You'll regret it later on if you don't, and decide you want an airline career after all. The last thing in the world you want to have to do is sit all those bloody exams twice.
ST
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Broomstick Pilot,
You need to determine if your direction will lead to a career in the airline industry. If you are pursuing a second career in flying instructing only then an ATPL, frozen or otherwise, has very little bearing on the PPL/CPL syllabus that you will teach such students.
Of the many flight instructors I know teaching at that level, the best are highly experienced CPL holders with many years operating GA aircraft in charter and as instructors. Practicing airline pilots I know who dabble in GA instructing openly admit to a lack of the nuts and bolts knowledge at the basic levels. They do however bring a certain discipline to the ‘club’ regime and reinforce airmanship and sound operating procedures gained not from their ATPL studies but imported from their airline SOP’s.
You need to determine if your direction will lead to a career in the airline industry. If you are pursuing a second career in flying instructing only then an ATPL, frozen or otherwise, has very little bearing on the PPL/CPL syllabus that you will teach such students.
Of the many flight instructors I know teaching at that level, the best are highly experienced CPL holders with many years operating GA aircraft in charter and as instructors. Practicing airline pilots I know who dabble in GA instructing openly admit to a lack of the nuts and bolts knowledge at the basic levels. They do however bring a certain discipline to the ‘club’ regime and reinforce airmanship and sound operating procedures gained not from their ATPL studies but imported from their airline SOP’s.
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One major stumbling block with the CPL route is that there are not as yet CPL (A) examinations, unless things have changed within the last few weeks. Therefore to obtain a CPL and indeed a FIR you have to do the ATPL exams. Obviously there would be no need to do an MIR, but if you don’t within the timescale, your CPL cannot be upgraded to an ATPL without doing the exams again!!
As I understand things there are still no schools offering CPL ground school, and those that were contemplating courses indicated that the price would not be much less than ATPL...supply and demand and all that!
Daft or what?
Check out www.srg.caa.co.uk for the full info.
Good luck
As I understand things there are still no schools offering CPL ground school, and those that were contemplating courses indicated that the price would not be much less than ATPL...supply and demand and all that!
Daft or what?
Check out www.srg.caa.co.uk for the full info.
Good luck
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I agree with Speed Twelve. Do the ATPLs.
What ever you decide to do, I think you will always come to value the education and you will have a lot more to offer your students.
Later on you will gain the experience dragchute was talking about.
What ever you decide to do, I think you will always come to value the education and you will have a lot more to offer your students.
Later on you will gain the experience dragchute was talking about.
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CPL Exams have been available for the last 12 months; there are likely to be CPL Courses available early in the new year.
The most important factor to consider if you take the ATPL exams is that you must also complete the training and apply for both CPL and IR within 36 months of passing the last exam or the ATPL credits are worthless for subsequent ATPL issue.
The most important factor to consider if you take the ATPL exams is that you must also complete the training and apply for both CPL and IR within 36 months of passing the last exam or the ATPL credits are worthless for subsequent ATPL issue.
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Noggin,
You may well be right but I was completely convinced that as yet the CAA had not set JAA CPL exams, or if they have, made sittings available. Can you confirm as there is nothing anywhere that I can find.
Ie:
No approved CPL theory course providers
No published learning objectives
No exam sittings
Ergo, by default, no CPL(A) theory exams
The National CPL exam sittings have been available up until recently, but the cut off for those is long long gone.
I would certainly like to hear if I have misread the situation. I was asked only the other week by a PPL student who wanted ,(for various reasons) only to do CPL and I hope that I have not given bum information.
We teach CPL (the flying bit) here and everyone is under the impression that there is still no route to CPL theory exams
At any rate to do only the CPL exams is a bit like doing an automatic car driving test…. Things and circumstances change, you just never know when you might just need to drive a car with gears….then what do you do? Sit the test again!
Cheers
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
You may well be right but I was completely convinced that as yet the CAA had not set JAA CPL exams, or if they have, made sittings available. Can you confirm as there is nothing anywhere that I can find.
Ie:
No approved CPL theory course providers
No published learning objectives
No exam sittings
Ergo, by default, no CPL(A) theory exams
The National CPL exam sittings have been available up until recently, but the cut off for those is long long gone.
I would certainly like to hear if I have misread the situation. I was asked only the other week by a PPL student who wanted ,(for various reasons) only to do CPL and I hope that I have not given bum information.
We teach CPL (the flying bit) here and everyone is under the impression that there is still no route to CPL theory exams
At any rate to do only the CPL exams is a bit like doing an automatic car driving test…. Things and circumstances change, you just never know when you might just need to drive a car with gears….then what do you do? Sit the test again!
Cheers
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
Join Date: Nov 2001
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to broomstick pilot go for the atpl if you can plus multi and ir as this will give you a greater variety of flying later. strings to your bow if you like i am a qfi/atpl/ir/multi and sim instructor. now between jobs. i hope this wider range of
qualifications will get me a job again soon best of luck
qualifications will get me a job again soon best of luck
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The CAA have had the JAA CPL exams available for over a year, the problem is that there was only one CPL course available and the company ceased trading so there have been no candidates to take the exams.
The CPL exams are actually extracted from the ATPL syllabus question bank for which I am told there are training objectives.
I also hear that a number of CPL courses are likely to appear in the new year so watch the adds.
The CPL exams are actually extracted from the ATPL syllabus question bank for which I am told there are training objectives.
I also hear that a number of CPL courses are likely to appear in the new year so watch the adds.
Do the ATPL course as its better taught than the CPL as only 99% take the ATPLs...
You may also find any future commercial FTO work you desire is closed to you becuase the airlines have specified min requirements for their cadets instructors that include the holding of a Frzn or otherwise ATPL.
Cheers
WWW
You may also find any future commercial FTO work you desire is closed to you becuase the airlines have specified min requirements for their cadets instructors that include the holding of a Frzn or otherwise ATPL.
Cheers
WWW
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Thanks for the advice guys.
My thoughts up to now have tended toward doing the ATPL exams. Having now read the various comments provided, however, I feel that on balance my original inclinations have probably been correct. This makes me more confident about proceeding.
Contrary suggestions have nevertheless been useful as a kind of devil's advocate with which to test my views.
Some of the comments provided have obviously taken the contributors some time to type in, so I should like to thank one and all for the trouble you have taken to help me.
My thoughts up to now have tended toward doing the ATPL exams. Having now read the various comments provided, however, I feel that on balance my original inclinations have probably been correct. This makes me more confident about proceeding.
Contrary suggestions have nevertheless been useful as a kind of devil's advocate with which to test my views.
Some of the comments provided have obviously taken the contributors some time to type in, so I should like to thank one and all for the trouble you have taken to help me.
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Just found out that Atlantic FT indeed now do a CPL DL Ground school course and have been CAA approved to do so. Therefor the game is now back on!
However, there can be very few reasons to do CPL over ATPL.
Good luck.
However, there can be very few reasons to do CPL over ATPL.
Good luck.
