Illegal Maintenance
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
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It sounds to me like you should engage a licenced engineer as a tech rep ,with a trade insider on your team you will soon get beter maintenance or find out if your expectations are unrealistic.
As i pointed out above i have saved owners a lot of problems and money by overseeing the maintenance of aircraft ,sometimes this advice will be that it is time to spend more money to save in the long term and this comes as a bit of a shock to some who think that all i should do is reduce the first bill i see.
As to taking the aircraft maintenance into your own hands and employing an unlicenced "expert" i,v seen this on a number of times the most interesting was when a tractor mechanic changed a cylinder on a lycoming and did not follow the corect practices the owner was happy with the cost saving untill after 20 min in the air the rocker shaft exited the engine wrecking the cylinder ,fortunatly the aircraft was within gliding distance of an airfield but what chance of redress from the tractor mechanic ?
[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
As i pointed out above i have saved owners a lot of problems and money by overseeing the maintenance of aircraft ,sometimes this advice will be that it is time to spend more money to save in the long term and this comes as a bit of a shock to some who think that all i should do is reduce the first bill i see.
As to taking the aircraft maintenance into your own hands and employing an unlicenced "expert" i,v seen this on a number of times the most interesting was when a tractor mechanic changed a cylinder on a lycoming and did not follow the corect practices the owner was happy with the cost saving untill after 20 min in the air the rocker shaft exited the engine wrecking the cylinder ,fortunatly the aircraft was within gliding distance of an airfield but what chance of redress from the tractor mechanic ?
[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: A and C ]
Join Date: Mar 2001
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It would seem that you have had a bad experience,possibly you have ,how could i know ?. It may be the case you are ticked off at having to cough up exorbitant amounts for what 'you' consider to be sub standard maintenance.Still good maintenance costs.
If you are going to make frankly ludicrous assertions about the numbers of bad engineers based on anecdotal evidence & your own eminently underqualified engineering opinion,why don't you confine it to the club bar !.Try coming up with some empirical data,until that time wind your neck in !.
If you are going to make frankly ludicrous assertions about the numbers of bad engineers based on anecdotal evidence & your own eminently underqualified engineering opinion,why don't you confine it to the club bar !.Try coming up with some empirical data,until that time wind your neck in !.
Safety First!
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As Ragspanner said, good maintenance costs money. The answer: shop around, look for the best deal from qualified LAME's with good reputations and whos mechanics (not completely qualified), are well supervised.
There is litte point in getting wound up over these posts, the fact remains that the law does not allow for illegal maintenance of any aeroplane. If people do shoddy maintenance it is at their own peril, the rules are there for everyone to see and adhere.
Kermit
There is litte point in getting wound up over these posts, the fact remains that the law does not allow for illegal maintenance of any aeroplane. If people do shoddy maintenance it is at their own peril, the rules are there for everyone to see and adhere.
Kermit
Safety First!
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And also to add that not only is dodgy maintenance at the peril of a pilot, but dangerous maintenance practices also endanger innocent people on the ground and in other aeroplanes. None of this helps to promote the safe and professional image GA wants, and needs, to send out to the general public.
Pilots' Pal
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Ladies and gents,
Have to say I have seen good and bad maintenance all over the world.
Once, did some ad-hoc work at a certain small, grass airfield, near a motorway inter-change in the north of England.Observed several pilot/owners, who were not LAEs, doing their own maintenance, well beyond that allowed under the terms of their PPLs.
Unfortunately, conscientious engineers are often ridiculed (sometimes by their peers!) for applying the right standards. You will always find a gash hand somewhere. In my experience, some owners of aircraft are quite prepared to pay large sums for their toys but are unwilling to pay for good maintenance. I have seen some horrendous wiring behind the panels of most light aircraft I have had the misfortune to work on. This is often carried out by pilots themselves or engineers with a licence but not the right licence!
I've seen the industry from hands-on to QA and back again. To be frank, a very, very few members of the maintenance fraternity are happy to pull flankers as a way of ingratiating (apologies to those pilots for whom this is a big word)themselves to managers. Some managers are only too happy to condone or encourage this.
It surprises me all the more now that we have a large database of information and empirical evidence showing that failure to follow procedures can cause serious trouble.
An engineer needs to remember that his signature lasts for the life of the aircraft and then some.
I have also seen pilots "conniving" (or attempting to connive) with engineers to minimise the impact of a defect, especially on tight turn arounds. "It's not in the book but...." or "...should I write it up?"
Here's another. Tech log entry: "For info...." followed by a bona-fide defect! The engineer's response is often "Info noted". The implication of the "For info" is "it's probably OK!" This generates a similar mind set with the engineer. Remember, "For info" means nothing. A defect is a defect!!
Let's all remember this, you get bad pilots too! Remember the "Bristol Cowboy" (dodgy 707)?
Have to say I have seen good and bad maintenance all over the world.
Once, did some ad-hoc work at a certain small, grass airfield, near a motorway inter-change in the north of England.Observed several pilot/owners, who were not LAEs, doing their own maintenance, well beyond that allowed under the terms of their PPLs.
Unfortunately, conscientious engineers are often ridiculed (sometimes by their peers!) for applying the right standards. You will always find a gash hand somewhere. In my experience, some owners of aircraft are quite prepared to pay large sums for their toys but are unwilling to pay for good maintenance. I have seen some horrendous wiring behind the panels of most light aircraft I have had the misfortune to work on. This is often carried out by pilots themselves or engineers with a licence but not the right licence!
I've seen the industry from hands-on to QA and back again. To be frank, a very, very few members of the maintenance fraternity are happy to pull flankers as a way of ingratiating (apologies to those pilots for whom this is a big word)themselves to managers. Some managers are only too happy to condone or encourage this.
It surprises me all the more now that we have a large database of information and empirical evidence showing that failure to follow procedures can cause serious trouble.
An engineer needs to remember that his signature lasts for the life of the aircraft and then some.
I have also seen pilots "conniving" (or attempting to connive) with engineers to minimise the impact of a defect, especially on tight turn arounds. "It's not in the book but...." or "...should I write it up?"
Here's another. Tech log entry: "For info...." followed by a bona-fide defect! The engineer's response is often "Info noted". The implication of the "For info" is "it's probably OK!" This generates a similar mind set with the engineer. Remember, "For info" means nothing. A defect is a defect!!
Let's all remember this, you get bad pilots too! Remember the "Bristol Cowboy" (dodgy 707)?
Yogi,
These ring any bells?
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
Or
If you think maintenance(safety) is expensive, try having an accident!
Oldies I know but they still ring true. Another thing to remember is that if the lame is certifying for the latest work carried out how is (s)he to know if an unqualified driver has been fiddling about?
When certifying a task I inspect that particular area relevant to the job, not the entire a/c. If you have been tinkering and then the a/c makes like a lawn dart, who gets fingerd? The chap with his name on the techlog thats who.
So lets here less of this grease monkey,incompetant idiot rhetoric, have some respect. The lame takes more responsibility than any driver ever. The minute you as a pilot closes the door and signs the a/c back in, your responsibility to it ends.
The Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer remains responcible until 2 years after the a/c is retired!!
Apologies for spelling and grammatical errors.
These ring any bells?
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!
Or
If you think maintenance(safety) is expensive, try having an accident!
Oldies I know but they still ring true. Another thing to remember is that if the lame is certifying for the latest work carried out how is (s)he to know if an unqualified driver has been fiddling about?
When certifying a task I inspect that particular area relevant to the job, not the entire a/c. If you have been tinkering and then the a/c makes like a lawn dart, who gets fingerd? The chap with his name on the techlog thats who.
So lets here less of this grease monkey,incompetant idiot rhetoric, have some respect. The lame takes more responsibility than any driver ever. The minute you as a pilot closes the door and signs the a/c back in, your responsibility to it ends.
The Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer remains responcible until 2 years after the a/c is retired!!
Apologies for spelling and grammatical errors.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Yogi,
yes you are sticking your neck out and that attitude could well earn said neck a good slapping!
all licensed engineers have worked hard for their qualifications - same as pilots - so why do you reckon 2/3 of us are crap?. I know there are some better engineers around than others, and as a contractor, I know which end of the scale I'm in as I would not be employed if i were no good.
If you want to fix your own plane and then fly it, fine, build a kit plane. If not leave well alone.
You suggested a rip off. HA! If you were to buy most parts required for an aircraft locally (ie halfords etc) the cost would be respectable. Then take those same parts and order them from an approved source - ie with a form one - and see a couple of zeros added ontothe price tag. What a suprise, Aviation is expensive. If you can't afford it, don't do it. I'd like to pursue my dream of driving exotic sports cars into walls, but I can't afford it so i dont do it (well not regularly anyway).
The hourly rate for a licensed engineer is usually less than the local garage charge for looking at your car and did that bloke spend years doing exams and getting certificates, and then redoing them when the rules change? I think not.
Just do me a favour and quit moaning
yes you are sticking your neck out and that attitude could well earn said neck a good slapping!
all licensed engineers have worked hard for their qualifications - same as pilots - so why do you reckon 2/3 of us are crap?. I know there are some better engineers around than others, and as a contractor, I know which end of the scale I'm in as I would not be employed if i were no good.
If you want to fix your own plane and then fly it, fine, build a kit plane. If not leave well alone.
You suggested a rip off. HA! If you were to buy most parts required for an aircraft locally (ie halfords etc) the cost would be respectable. Then take those same parts and order them from an approved source - ie with a form one - and see a couple of zeros added ontothe price tag. What a suprise, Aviation is expensive. If you can't afford it, don't do it. I'd like to pursue my dream of driving exotic sports cars into walls, but I can't afford it so i dont do it (well not regularly anyway).
The hourly rate for a licensed engineer is usually less than the local garage charge for looking at your car and did that bloke spend years doing exams and getting certificates, and then redoing them when the rules change? I think not.
Just do me a favour and quit moaning
cones r us,
FANTASTIC!
How do you type like that? it takes me a week to type this.
Last week news & rumours,
Yesterday Flying instructors,
Tommorrow,,,,ze vorld!!!!!
Keep up the good work.
FANTASTIC!
How do you type like that? it takes me a week to type this.
Last week news & rumours,
Yesterday Flying instructors,
Tommorrow,,,,ze vorld!!!!!
Keep up the good work.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Another licenced engineer here, don't have time to write much at the moment, but Yogi has a point about the quality of some engineers. However, to say two thirds are incompetant displays either a lack of knowledge on the subject or just a severe problem with basic arithmetic.
Obviously I consider myself to be competant, with the responsibilities we have in this job, not too many people who aren't sure of their abilities would be able to go to work each day.
As often happens, the fly-boy has his head in the clouds (pardon the pun). He obviously thinks he has a right to look down (pardon the pun) on us lesser mortals. What next? Trolley dollies also getting ideas above their station?
Surely not.
Obviously I consider myself to be competant, with the responsibilities we have in this job, not too many people who aren't sure of their abilities would be able to go to work each day.
As often happens, the fly-boy has his head in the clouds (pardon the pun). He obviously thinks he has a right to look down (pardon the pun) on us lesser mortals. What next? Trolley dollies also getting ideas above their station?
Surely not.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I see Yogi-Bear comes from the "Fairy Tale Land", says it all really!!!!
Just don't let him come down to NZ, cause the 66% of us 'incompetent engineers' may just give him a good slapping.
Just don't let him come down to NZ, cause the 66% of us 'incompetent engineers' may just give him a good slapping.
