Unfreezing UK FATPL after June 2002
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Unfreezing UK FATPL after June 2002
Hi people ...
Here's one for you to ponder. I've stared at GID 36 for hours trying to make head or tail of it, I spent 30 minutes in a hold queue to the CAA yesterday before I got irate and hung up, and I've had 3 or 4 different answers from various people who all are supposed to know.
Like many of us up-and-coming instructors here, I hold a UK frozen ATPL, or to give it its proper title, a UK CPL/IR with UK ATPL theory credits. I have sufficient total time to unfreeze it, but not enough night or IMC time at the moment. I kind of had hopes of unfreezing it before the June 2002 cutoff but since I'm now redundant and flying jobs are likely to be as rare as rocking horse sh!t for the foreseeable future, I'm working on the basis that it's unlikely to happen. Therefore it will be a JAR ATPL I will end up holding, when I finally get round to applying for it.
My problem is related to whether or not our UK ATPL theory credits are still going to be recognized for the JAR licence. It seems clear from reading GID 36, that if you have 500 hours multi crew on a UK FATPL then a JAR FATPL will be immediately forthcoming even though you hold UK exam passes. For those of us who've been instructing and aren't blessed with multi crew time however, it's looking increasingly like a nightmare.
Here's the relevant quote from the GID :
4) UK CPL(A)/IR holders with with 'frozen' ATPL examination credits who have less than 500 hours experience on multi pilot aeroplanes will not be given ATPL theory credit for the JAR-FCL licence. However, the UK Civil Aviation Authority has advised that UK CPL(A)/IR holders with 'frozen' ATPL(A) credits who obtain a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR without ATPL theory credit will retain their UK 'frozen' ATPL(A) credits. In addition, UK ATPL knowledge will be accepted to endorse the first multi pilot type rating to a JAR CPL(A)/IR issued without ATPL theory credit.
Clear as mud
As I interpret it, I have to apply before the cutoff date to convert my UK CPL to a JAR CPL (a paperwork exercise I believe, although it's no doubt another hefty cheque to be written). My UK ATPL credits are then retained, but only for the issue of the first multi pilot type to go onto the licence.
So here's the catch - if I was to go out on the 1st of July 2002 and get, for argument's sake, a J31 rating, then it would be recognized since it was the first rating on the licence. However, if I was offered a B767 job the following day, I still wouldn't have 500 hours multi crew, and therefore I couldn't use my UK ATPL credits to put the second type on my licence. I would therefore have to go and re sit the JAR ATPL theory, or else I would be forced to go and get 500 hours on the Jetstream and get a JAR FATPL issued, before I could take up any other multi crew flying job?
Here's the entire document for anyone who's scratching their head ...
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_gid36.pdf
On a partly related issue, a chap at work who's currently doing his IR training elsewhere, swears blind that he's been told by his instructor that if you hold a UK IR after the 2002 cut off date and you let it go uncurrent even for a second, it is no longer recognized and you'll have to do another full issue test for the JAR IR. Anyone care to comment on this one, or direct me to the appropriate reference document?
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Luke SkyToddler ]
Here's one for you to ponder. I've stared at GID 36 for hours trying to make head or tail of it, I spent 30 minutes in a hold queue to the CAA yesterday before I got irate and hung up, and I've had 3 or 4 different answers from various people who all are supposed to know.
Like many of us up-and-coming instructors here, I hold a UK frozen ATPL, or to give it its proper title, a UK CPL/IR with UK ATPL theory credits. I have sufficient total time to unfreeze it, but not enough night or IMC time at the moment. I kind of had hopes of unfreezing it before the June 2002 cutoff but since I'm now redundant and flying jobs are likely to be as rare as rocking horse sh!t for the foreseeable future, I'm working on the basis that it's unlikely to happen. Therefore it will be a JAR ATPL I will end up holding, when I finally get round to applying for it.
My problem is related to whether or not our UK ATPL theory credits are still going to be recognized for the JAR licence. It seems clear from reading GID 36, that if you have 500 hours multi crew on a UK FATPL then a JAR FATPL will be immediately forthcoming even though you hold UK exam passes. For those of us who've been instructing and aren't blessed with multi crew time however, it's looking increasingly like a nightmare.
Here's the relevant quote from the GID :
4) UK CPL(A)/IR holders with with 'frozen' ATPL examination credits who have less than 500 hours experience on multi pilot aeroplanes will not be given ATPL theory credit for the JAR-FCL licence. However, the UK Civil Aviation Authority has advised that UK CPL(A)/IR holders with 'frozen' ATPL(A) credits who obtain a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR without ATPL theory credit will retain their UK 'frozen' ATPL(A) credits. In addition, UK ATPL knowledge will be accepted to endorse the first multi pilot type rating to a JAR CPL(A)/IR issued without ATPL theory credit.
Clear as mud
As I interpret it, I have to apply before the cutoff date to convert my UK CPL to a JAR CPL (a paperwork exercise I believe, although it's no doubt another hefty cheque to be written). My UK ATPL credits are then retained, but only for the issue of the first multi pilot type to go onto the licence.So here's the catch - if I was to go out on the 1st of July 2002 and get, for argument's sake, a J31 rating, then it would be recognized since it was the first rating on the licence. However, if I was offered a B767 job the following day, I still wouldn't have 500 hours multi crew, and therefore I couldn't use my UK ATPL credits to put the second type on my licence. I would therefore have to go and re sit the JAR ATPL theory, or else I would be forced to go and get 500 hours on the Jetstream and get a JAR FATPL issued, before I could take up any other multi crew flying job?
Here's the entire document for anyone who's scratching their head ...
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_gid36.pdf
On a partly related issue, a chap at work who's currently doing his IR training elsewhere, swears blind that he's been told by his instructor that if you hold a UK IR after the 2002 cut off date and you let it go uncurrent even for a second, it is no longer recognized and you'll have to do another full issue test for the JAR IR. Anyone care to comment on this one, or direct me to the appropriate reference document?
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Luke SkyToddler ]
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I thought this one had been put to bed a long time ago. Just stay with your UK licence, when you have the requirements for an ATPL apply for it. End of story.
Regarding the expired IR, some people will believe anything.
Regarding the expired IR, some people will believe anything.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I too was a little concerned by GID36 when I had a good look at it and after some searching on the SRG website, I found GID7 which was issued 22-10-01 and explains it all quite nicely.
GID7 Available at: www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_Cessation_UK_Prof_Licences.pdf
GID7 Available at: www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_Cessation_UK_Prof_Licences.pdf
