Cabair, change of direction
Cabair, change of direction
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
May be with this forum to ask questions people new to flying are getting wise to the gold and silver programs that have yards of small print and several ways to fall out of discount and pay the very full price.
After all the posh offices, potted plants and sea of gold braid have to be payed for some how.
also could some one please tell me how you can teach climbing turns and decending on the way to elstree for maintenance and give the student value for money.
After all the posh offices, potted plants and sea of gold braid have to be payed for some how.
also could some one please tell me how you can teach climbing turns and decending on the way to elstree for maintenance and give the student value for money.
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It is a wounder Cabair grew so big in the first place with their prices. They had some good instructors, but paying £100+ per hour for PPL training didn't guarantee you'd get a good one.
People have just cottoned on to the idea that you can go down the road and get the same product, less gold braids at less cost.
People have just cottoned on to the idea that you can go down the road and get the same product, less gold braids at less cost.
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Cabair are not the only ones. Take a look at some of the independent schools around London. For example one of the two major clubs at Booker (not the one which paints its aircraft with funny tails) charges over £130 an hour for a clapped out C152 with mould on the roof. Don't even ask how much of that goes to the instructor. Just remember that they are VERY LUCKY to be allowed to fly the aircraft to build hours on the way to their airline job...
Someone said to me the other day that the only reason Cabair have done so well in the past is that they have a supply of virtually free instructors through the airline sponsorship scheme.
Never flown with Cabair.. Any feedback on quality of service, availability of a/c etc?
Someone said to me the other day that the only reason Cabair have done so well in the past is that they have a supply of virtually free instructors through the airline sponsorship scheme.
Never flown with Cabair.. Any feedback on quality of service, availability of a/c etc?
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From what I hear of Cabair at Elstree:
Good instructors, aircraft for PPL training are almost new PA28s and availability problems are rare. A Katana is supposed to be arriving shortly.
But, Elstree is very crowded, especially now one of the taxiways is waterlogged so there is lots of backtracking going on. Expect plenty of go-rounds due to runway occupation or conflicting traffic. (Not Cabair's fault of course.)
And all for £150 per hour! Plus landings!
Good instructors, aircraft for PPL training are almost new PA28s and availability problems are rare. A Katana is supposed to be arriving shortly.
But, Elstree is very crowded, especially now one of the taxiways is waterlogged so there is lots of backtracking going on. Expect plenty of go-rounds due to runway occupation or conflicting traffic. (Not Cabair's fault of course.)
And all for £150 per hour! Plus landings!
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Interested to hear that, Moggie.
You don't mention which of Cabair's schools ?
It certainly wasn't Blackbushe as most,if not all,the Instructors there are Instrument Rated. Hence they know their way around.
The majority of IMC Rating candidates from there are very sound.
You don't mention which of Cabair's schools ?
It certainly wasn't Blackbushe as most,if not all,the Instructors there are Instrument Rated. Hence they know their way around.
The majority of IMC Rating candidates from there are very sound.
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Not necessarily relevant to instructors but, from what I hear, many of the GA community at EGHH are almost flying flags and dancing in the streets now that Cabair have gone. Hopefully, under new ownership, they can now rebuild their excellent flying club that Cabair almost destroyed.
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
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"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting what you've always got"
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It was funny to see how many instructors left EGHH when Cabair moved in. That certainly said something about Cabair from those in the know. Hopefully now they have gone so will the profit at all cost attitude.
I am wonder way anyone flys from Elstree when the lovely and less crowded Denham is near by, with pro AFIS and no odd ball A/G.
I am wonder way anyone flys from Elstree when the lovely and less crowded Denham is near by, with pro AFIS and no odd ball A/G.
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Is it true that Cabair have put their PPL F.I's on a 4 day week & are now getting them to work 5 days for 4 days pay ?
If true , this must indicate that times are hard for E.C.H et al - are there really that many F.I's on the market to upset the poorly paid guys working for them already .
I seem to recall that a certain Chief Executive treated his instructors with the same contempt as the club coffee machines ... as neccessary evils'!
If true , this must indicate that times are hard for E.C.H et al - are there really that many F.I's on the market to upset the poorly paid guys working for them already .
I seem to recall that a certain Chief Executive treated his instructors with the same contempt as the club coffee machines ... as neccessary evils'!
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Johntrav69 -
It amazed me too. Apparently radar vectors are good enough - which of course sets you up perfectly for all those procedural-only places you go to when you get into the right hand seat. We had to bring the poor sods up to scratch before they could start their BA type conversions and it was hard work for them and us.
It amazed me too. Apparently radar vectors are good enough - which of course sets you up perfectly for all those procedural-only places you go to when you get into the right hand seat. We had to bring the poor sods up to scratch before they could start their BA type conversions and it was hard work for them and us.
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The new Jar system can't help with these ab-initio guys as they only have 20 hours in the twin now. They used to have big problems passing the IR with 35 hours so it can be no suprise that they are trained to pass a test only. I am amazed how many people tell me that they consider an NDB approach to be a black art and have never really understood it.
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There's a certain amount of duff gen being spread here. To pass an IRT in the UK you must fly at least one procedural approach, including a hold, using only single needle tracking. As Cranfield aren't blessed with radar, all IFR approaches there are procedural. Although Cranfield have a VOR approach as well as the NDB, it's not used much as it gets in the way of the procedural SIDs you've got to fly to get into the airways structure. UK IREs aren't going to pass anyone who can't fly procedurally and Cabair students do pass their IRTs.
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Stan evil - I have to disagree. we got it direct from the students themselves. Of a gropu of 8 they had 1 SID and two procedural approaches between them - honest!!!! I'm damned if I know how the FTO and Examiners managed that!
Of course under JAR total hours flown on twins MAY be fewer, but that does not mean that the FTOs only have to do the minimum (some do more) and of course you don't have to have two engines to fly procedural approaches. BAE and Oxford do IF on singles (that is a much better use of time than yet another VFR navex). Cabair were guilty of only doing procedral IF on their twins (the VERY slow Cougar) and that is why BA left - the students new too little at procedural IF and struggled with the step up to jets more than those trained by BAE, OATS and West Michigan on senecas.
Of course under JAR total hours flown on twins MAY be fewer, but that does not mean that the FTOs only have to do the minimum (some do more) and of course you don't have to have two engines to fly procedural approaches. BAE and Oxford do IF on singles (that is a much better use of time than yet another VFR navex). Cabair were guilty of only doing procedral IF on their twins (the VERY slow Cougar) and that is why BA left - the students new too little at procedural IF and struggled with the step up to jets more than those trained by BAE, OATS and West Michigan on senecas.
