Putting my new 182RG on line. Advice apreciated.

[Highbypass]

Hi all. I am currently about to complete my GFPT at a flying school at Essendon, in Melbourne Australia. I'm about to buy a 182RG that is in excelent condition. I would love to have some names of flying schools to avoid, but would just love some advice on what to watch our for with regard to putting an A/C on line with such flying schools.

Thanks in advance.

[YPJT]

If you are thinking of putting an aircraft on line, check the condition of other aircraft on their line already.. .Look at their pilots, would you trust them with your pride and joy?. .Ask for three credit references. Many owners have been hurt by operators stacking on the hours then not paying up.. .Put an agreement in writing, in particular the terms of payment, periods of notice to terminate the agreement, and that your authorisation is required before any maintenance which will cost more than say $200 is carried our. (if you'd like an example of an agreement, let me know, and I can email you a generic one). .Get an ABN so you can claim back GST on your aircraft expenses.. .If you don't need to earn an income from the aircraft, don't put it on line anywhere.. .If you need a guaranteed income for your aircraft, you possibly can't afford it. . .Ensure that the insurance cover is appropriate, eg on this type of aircraft, no ab-initio training would be the go. Also ensure that anyone they may cross-hire it out to is named on the insurance.. .Hope that helps fro starters.

[The Stooge]

Highbypass,. .I wouldnt even bother buying an aircraft little lone putting it online. All it is is one BIG headache. The only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start out with a big one. Then you put it on line and some ******** private pilot who only flies once in a blue moon writes it off on you or atleast cartwheels it in a 4 knot crosswind landing. Then you have to contend with getting money out of the operator and let me tell you aviation business in the Melbourne are are bleeding at the moment. They will fill you with **** that they will have your plane doing a 100 hourly every 2 weeks. But not the case. Then it comes to the cost of the 100 hourly, casa have every maintenance place so **** scared now that replacement of parts is not on a progressive scale it is just done. 100 hourlys will probably cost $5000-$10000. Realistically that is $50-$100 per flying hour just on maint then all your other costs on top of that. Like insurance, the only company now is the pool and thanks to Sept 11 the hull value has now doubled to 5.2%. So that will be probably about $6000 and they want the money up front not on 1/4 installments. Otherwise you will enjoy a C182, good luck.

[Sunland]

HB/pass;. .. .YPJT & Stooge have pretty good advice, except that AOA still keep the pool honest and they still do instalments. However, since AVSURE did a runner and 09/11 - premiums have jumped big time.. .. .C182RG??, This might be your ideal aircraft and good luck to you, but as an on-line machine??.. .. .If you are buying a C182RG as your ideal aircraft, fine - but if your motive is an on-line investment then choose something simple and less expensive to repair when a student crunches it.. .. .If you are dead-set on this immaculate machine, set some minimum standards for pilots e.g. min 100-200 hours t.t. or just dual instruction only. Otherwise it won't be immaculate for long.. .. .Guidelines for on-line; 1. No money No Fly. Set a payment date every month. If the $$$ are not there on time, ground the aircraft. The school will soon pay up on time or if they don't your losses can be minimalised. I have mates who were fed B.S. - checks in the mail etc and before long they were many $K behind by the time they took their machine away. 2. If you get a copy of an agreement from YPJT, add that the school is responsible for any excess (YPJT may already have it there). Usual excess is 1.0% but it really doesn't take much damage to get a bill for 1K - 1.5K. Try getting that out of a school after the event.

[Wheeler]

Not sure I would be quite as pessimistic as the most pessimistic above, but having had Cessna retractables on line for a few years now, I would say most of it is excellent advice.. .. .A bit like property, it is almost impossible to make money on the rent. The only way you might make a quid is on appreciation of the asset - but C182RG values are pretty high right now and the market is very flat and so that might be difficult in the immediate future. Therefore, at best you are talking cost recovery and so you must protect the asset. Unless you can get heaps of hours, you are almost better off with minimum hours so that you can recover some cost without depreciating the asset too much in terms of wear and tear, engine and prop life.. .. .Keep a very close eye on the operator -check the plane every day if poss. If there is any sniff of abuse or non payment (insist on specific regular payments in your written agreement) pull the plane immediately. If they know you mean business and they need the plane they will look after you. If they dont, look elsewhere. There are good operators out there - but some are awful. Same for maintenance, you will not be getting too many $1500 100hrlys, let me assure you, although $10,000 might not be representative either - not every time anyway. Be very careful where you take it. I have found the more some of those c-----ks charge, often the worse the service. They seem to have some rediculous idea that because it is on line, it (and you) are a gold mine.. .. .The best aircraft to keep on line are the simple ones that are hard to break. C182RG's are not in that class. They are not difficult to land but your average Cherokee driver might find it challenging and a hard landing can be very costly. I make general flying school/inexperinced hire work a no no. Be careful with some of the so-called commercial trianing too - depends on the operator. Lots of T and G's not a good idea.. .. .If you can avoid keeping it on line - do so. (Believe me, I could cry sometimes when I see what some d------ds do to my pride and joy. Some people just will not respect your property. If you can identify who - ban them - even (especially) if it is an instructor.) . .. .The problem is that you will need to fly about 200 hours per year yourself to justify it without being on line. But what the hell - that is by far you best option if you can afford it. Hopefully it will appreciate and you will be able to keep it really nice and improve it into the bargain.. .. .I have no idea who is good or bad in your area, but I do hope some of the ppruners have sent you confidential emails. There will be people you must avoid like the plague.. .. .Best of luck - an excellent choice of aircraft if I may say so.

[Cypher]

Hey HighBypass... .Drop me a email... I might be able to put you in touch with someone whos been there.. though it's in New Zealand.. Happens to be a C182 too, but not RG.... .. .Regards

[Throtlemonkey]

Highbypass you have excellent taste in aircraft. If your going to put your aircraft on line don't be afraid to put an hour limit on the pilots that fly it for example 100 hours total 10 in the last 6 months, just to make sure your aircraft stays in one piece. Also check the category of your aircraft if its in the private category you may need to spend a little on things like fire extinguishers and exit signs and a maintenance inspection to get it into airwork or charter category.. .. .(The secret to good landings in the 182 is an extra half turn of back trim on mid finals to help you out in the flare). . . . <small>[ 14 March 2002, 08:42: Message edited by: Throttlemonkey ]</small>