Instructors - raise your game!
My aim is not to back up the lazy sods who should be thrown out of the industry. It is to offer a reason why so many do become lazy, dissillusioned, jaded and miserable.
Without changing a single aspect of the job other than paying £30k you would removed 80% of the problem because of the importance of the cerebral contract. Particularly in males who generally measure status through their job.
To come back to my initial statement - its hard to act as if you are on £30k when you are actually on £9k.
Perhaps its a male thing Whirly and - as an aviation nut - you instruct out of a dissproportionate sense of enthusiasm compared to the average Instructor.
Ludwig - I agree on both your points.
Cheers
WWW
Without changing a single aspect of the job other than paying £30k you would removed 80% of the problem because of the importance of the cerebral contract. Particularly in males who generally measure status through their job.
To come back to my initial statement - its hard to act as if you are on £30k when you are actually on £9k.
Perhaps its a male thing Whirly and - as an aviation nut - you instruct out of a dissproportionate sense of enthusiasm compared to the average Instructor.
Ludwig - I agree on both your points.
Cheers
WWW
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Without changing a single aspect of the job other than paying £30k you would removed 80% of the problem
Just my opinion.
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Except there would be no jobs. If you effectively treble the staff costs so few people would do PPL’s that most schools would go out of business. People are so mobile these days that wannabe PPL's would go aboard unless the price hike was international. Where then would the hours builders hours build other than by paying for it themselves. A bit of a pyrrhic victory perhaps?
Such action may however lead to an upsurge in the number of PPL instructors instructing on a PPL, the one thing all new FI’s seem to hate with a vengeance!
Such action may however lead to an upsurge in the number of PPL instructors instructing on a PPL, the one thing all new FI’s seem to hate with a vengeance!
Why do it if it's not fun?
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True, Ludwig. Except that WWW was trying to relate motivation to pay. So, to illustrate the point, I conveniently ignored every effect of raising instructors' pay except for the motivational factors.
FFF
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FFF
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The Original Whirly
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WWW,
I'm not convinced either that it's a male thing, or that paying that type of instructor more would make any difference. Either way, the instructor has to be there, and instruct. As I pointed out earlier, it's really no easier to fly with Bloggs and wish you weren't there, than to actually teach him. In my experience, people who skive off do so however well they're paid. They always see their glass as half-empty, and will never be satisfied. Those who see the glass as half-full do their best regardless, and perceive instructing as a stepping stone to better things, and better than having to pay to fly. That doesn't mean they like the pay, or don't get pissed off now and then. One of those "half-empty" instructors, who I flew with and you knew, just about never had a positive word about anything. With hindsight, he was just a miserable git! AFAIK he never got an airline job, but I bet if he had, he'd soon have been whinging about only being a FO, or the hours, or the routes, or the aircraft....or even the pay since others were on more!!! That's what he was like. Pity I didn't see it as a student before I flew rather too many hours with him.
I leave myself personally out of all of this. I have other work, that pays reasonably well. I instruct because I love it, because I can't afford to fly helicopters long term otherwise, and because it's a great part time job. I'm very lucky; I do realise that. But that doesn't mean I've been shutting my eyes for the last few years to what goes on with everyone else in the industry.
I'm not convinced either that it's a male thing, or that paying that type of instructor more would make any difference. Either way, the instructor has to be there, and instruct. As I pointed out earlier, it's really no easier to fly with Bloggs and wish you weren't there, than to actually teach him. In my experience, people who skive off do so however well they're paid. They always see their glass as half-empty, and will never be satisfied. Those who see the glass as half-full do their best regardless, and perceive instructing as a stepping stone to better things, and better than having to pay to fly. That doesn't mean they like the pay, or don't get pissed off now and then. One of those "half-empty" instructors, who I flew with and you knew, just about never had a positive word about anything. With hindsight, he was just a miserable git! AFAIK he never got an airline job, but I bet if he had, he'd soon have been whinging about only being a FO, or the hours, or the routes, or the aircraft....or even the pay since others were on more!!! That's what he was like. Pity I didn't see it as a student before I flew rather too many hours with him.
I leave myself personally out of all of this. I have other work, that pays reasonably well. I instruct because I love it, because I can't afford to fly helicopters long term otherwise, and because it's a great part time job. I'm very lucky; I do realise that. But that doesn't mean I've been shutting my eyes for the last few years to what goes on with everyone else in the industry.
Ludwig - I never ever meant that instructors should be paid that. The result would be that everybody trained in the States which is obviously a little self defeating.
FFF - yep all those would be upsides of increased salary.
Whirly - if instructing is your only job and you are living in a crappy cold caravan eaking out the pennies in Asda then devotion to the job wears thin after about a year even if you started as the most enthusiastic chap ever.
GA is basically screwed in this country due to sky high taxes and sky high regulatory fees.
It only seems to be getting worse and frankly I don't think there is anything but a smaller future for Group A flying.
The recreational people will head off towards gliding, microlighting and ultralighting as they all become more and more sophisticated and capable and cheaper.
Meanwhile Group A will become the preserve of people training towards higher licenses who will stop GA flying the minute they start commercial flying.
Its only a matter of time before the 'Green' brigade manage to mount an effective campaign against the horrendously low tech high emission noisy engines we use throughout GA. We keep loosing airfields suitable for Group A and with the value of land spiralling out of all control in the UK this will only get worse as owners talk to developers.
The average age of your Group A aircraft has been getting longer since the early 70's. The fleet is old knackered, maintenance intensive, thirsty, unreliable and scruffy.
The costs of certification and design are so high that no replacement for the 152/172/P38/28 is in the offing. Truth be known this suits the country down to the ground. In these crowded skies nobody wants private people pottering about. Nobody wants the noise, nobody wants to pay for radar coverage, nobody wants to operate airfields, nobody wants you burning petrol and spewing out clouds of smoke.
Sad, but the way I think its headed.
Cheers
WWW
FFF - yep all those would be upsides of increased salary.
Whirly - if instructing is your only job and you are living in a crappy cold caravan eaking out the pennies in Asda then devotion to the job wears thin after about a year even if you started as the most enthusiastic chap ever.
GA is basically screwed in this country due to sky high taxes and sky high regulatory fees.
It only seems to be getting worse and frankly I don't think there is anything but a smaller future for Group A flying.
The recreational people will head off towards gliding, microlighting and ultralighting as they all become more and more sophisticated and capable and cheaper.
Meanwhile Group A will become the preserve of people training towards higher licenses who will stop GA flying the minute they start commercial flying.
Its only a matter of time before the 'Green' brigade manage to mount an effective campaign against the horrendously low tech high emission noisy engines we use throughout GA. We keep loosing airfields suitable for Group A and with the value of land spiralling out of all control in the UK this will only get worse as owners talk to developers.
The average age of your Group A aircraft has been getting longer since the early 70's. The fleet is old knackered, maintenance intensive, thirsty, unreliable and scruffy.
The costs of certification and design are so high that no replacement for the 152/172/P38/28 is in the offing. Truth be known this suits the country down to the ground. In these crowded skies nobody wants private people pottering about. Nobody wants the noise, nobody wants to pay for radar coverage, nobody wants to operate airfields, nobody wants you burning petrol and spewing out clouds of smoke.
Sad, but the way I think its headed.
Cheers
WWW
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How do you spot the different Kinds of Instructor - Its Easy!
Its simply a case of taking a look at the instructors training:
In the "good" old days it was simple. BCPL- AFI to 600 Hours then unapproved IR training which hopefully took you to 700 hours for the coveted CPL/IR.
With the introduction of JAR there is no incentive to take a "gap year" its approved IR training regardless of your experience.
We have a guy at our place who's basically fallen for the Hype put about by a very large school who suggested that they would be able to get him a job with 250 hours (No guarantees of course). Its over twelve months since his Initial IR he's been a terminal CV sender and earned not a groat in the last 12 months. He gets an E mail every 4 weeks from the same school stating how things are about to improve and to "hang in there" and that his gilt edged education should stand him head and shoulders above all the rest when its interview time...........
If somebody was serious about learning their craft as a professional pilot, then I truly feel that the old system was a more complete method.
I truly think that any flying school manager who recieves an application from a JAR CPL/IR with a sizeable gap between Initial IR and FIR ratings should seriously question their motives & dedication with regard to their customers.......
Now if somebody came with a fresh CPL and FIR then it would be difficult to question their motives wouldn't it.
So back to the post ....Don't expect somebody who's just spent 40-50k on an approved course who's then been told that they now have to spend another 6k to fly around in Cessna 150's to act like a tramp on a kipper when they come for interview......
Dont get me wrong I fully agree with the original posters sentiments.
It does make one wonder as to the standard of FO that will be crewing the aircraft that our families fly in in 2 or 3 years time.
In the "good" old days it was simple. BCPL- AFI to 600 Hours then unapproved IR training which hopefully took you to 700 hours for the coveted CPL/IR.
With the introduction of JAR there is no incentive to take a "gap year" its approved IR training regardless of your experience.
We have a guy at our place who's basically fallen for the Hype put about by a very large school who suggested that they would be able to get him a job with 250 hours (No guarantees of course). Its over twelve months since his Initial IR he's been a terminal CV sender and earned not a groat in the last 12 months. He gets an E mail every 4 weeks from the same school stating how things are about to improve and to "hang in there" and that his gilt edged education should stand him head and shoulders above all the rest when its interview time...........
If somebody was serious about learning their craft as a professional pilot, then I truly feel that the old system was a more complete method.
I truly think that any flying school manager who recieves an application from a JAR CPL/IR with a sizeable gap between Initial IR and FIR ratings should seriously question their motives & dedication with regard to their customers.......
Now if somebody came with a fresh CPL and FIR then it would be difficult to question their motives wouldn't it.
So back to the post ....Don't expect somebody who's just spent 40-50k on an approved course who's then been told that they now have to spend another 6k to fly around in Cessna 150's to act like a tramp on a kipper when they come for interview......
Dont get me wrong I fully agree with the original posters sentiments.
It does make one wonder as to the standard of FO that will be crewing the aircraft that our families fly in in 2 or 3 years time.
Sad thing is I know a good chap who is doing just that - 6+months out of OATS Integrated - not a sniff of anything - now saving hard for the FI course.
Doesn't really work does it?
As you suggest - any flying school owner is going to choose the CPL - straight to FI rating - waiting for 1,000hr before doing modular IR course - guy every time.
Cheers
WWW
Doesn't really work does it?
As you suggest - any flying school owner is going to choose the CPL - straight to FI rating - waiting for 1,000hr before doing modular IR course - guy every time.
Cheers
WWW
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Sad, but the way I think its headed
Interesting analysis, and I agree that this is a likely outcome. But it doesn't have to be.
What keeps the whole scene decrepit (and declining) is the small (and reducing) number of students, and the stone age attitudes of most flying school operators.
I fly a new-ish modern plane (not a Cessna or Piper) and most of my many non-aviation passengers have commented they really like flying like that, but they would never go anywhere near the old junk which sits around the airfield. It's pretty clear most "normal" people think along those lines, like it or not. Only a tiny percentage would turn up at a flying school to do a PPL. Many more people swallow their concerns for a single "trial lesson" for somebody's birthday, but that's no good for you.
BUT nobody stops somebody setting up a school with new modern planes. Contrary to what you say, there are plenty about. Look at the Diamond DA40 - sleek, efficient, and most importantly SEXY. Even a TB10 is vastly better than a PA28 into which everybody has to climb through the one door, crawling over the seats and wondering how they would get out if they really had to... A brand new C172 looks like something out of WW2 too. So why don't people do that? Lack of capital will be one reason given no doubt but where there is a business case, one can get money.
Perhaps the #1 reason is that most people IN this business reckon that spending 50hours in a C150 is the proper expression of manhood. These dinosaurs absolutely refuse to believe that somebody doesn't like these "wonderful old planes which are just perfect for training".
Next, you would have to advertise the fact that your planes are modern etc, and drive home to people that you don't fly the same old junk which they see everywhere. How many friends will that win you around your airfield? None (given the often vindictively political scene around airfields - itself the result of nobody making much money), so nobody will do it. I've known people set up with brand new planes but they refused to advertise the fact, for fear of making enemies (and they got no customers). But nothing stops you actually getting modern planes and promoting this huge marketing advantage in a way which any properly run business would.
The margin between direct operating costs of a plane (new one or old one) and what one can charge for a lesson, isn't big so the business case hinges severely on student numbers (aircraft utilisation). All the time these aren't there, one can argue about everything under the sun without getting anywhere. One can rant about taxes, licensing costs, landing fees, you name it. None of this makes any real difference when the "sales" aren't there.
Things could be done, but not without many/most of the dinosaurs disappearing first. This will take time, because many school operators are happy to work for next to nothing. It's a sort of a hobby, and all the time they make enough to pay their rent they will do the same old thing.
It needs a bold approach from an outsider, and it could be done only at certain locations. But I am quite sure that a properly run school, with a modern fleet, correct advertising, and proper facilities for post-PPL pilots, and a few other easy things, would succeed.
Sad, but the way I think its headed
Interesting analysis, and I agree that this is a likely outcome. But it doesn't have to be.
What keeps the whole scene decrepit (and declining) is the small (and reducing) number of students, and the stone age attitudes of most flying school operators.
I fly a new-ish modern plane (not a Cessna or Piper) and most of my many non-aviation passengers have commented they really like flying like that, but they would never go anywhere near the old junk which sits around the airfield. It's pretty clear most "normal" people think along those lines, like it or not. Only a tiny percentage would turn up at a flying school to do a PPL. Many more people swallow their concerns for a single "trial lesson" for somebody's birthday, but that's no good for you.
BUT nobody stops somebody setting up a school with new modern planes. Contrary to what you say, there are plenty about. Look at the Diamond DA40 - sleek, efficient, and most importantly SEXY. Even a TB10 is vastly better than a PA28 into which everybody has to climb through the one door, crawling over the seats and wondering how they would get out if they really had to... A brand new C172 looks like something out of WW2 too. So why don't people do that? Lack of capital will be one reason given no doubt but where there is a business case, one can get money.
Perhaps the #1 reason is that most people IN this business reckon that spending 50hours in a C150 is the proper expression of manhood. These dinosaurs absolutely refuse to believe that somebody doesn't like these "wonderful old planes which are just perfect for training".
Next, you would have to advertise the fact that your planes are modern etc, and drive home to people that you don't fly the same old junk which they see everywhere. How many friends will that win you around your airfield? None (given the often vindictively political scene around airfields - itself the result of nobody making much money), so nobody will do it. I've known people set up with brand new planes but they refused to advertise the fact, for fear of making enemies (and they got no customers). But nothing stops you actually getting modern planes and promoting this huge marketing advantage in a way which any properly run business would.
The margin between direct operating costs of a plane (new one or old one) and what one can charge for a lesson, isn't big so the business case hinges severely on student numbers (aircraft utilisation). All the time these aren't there, one can argue about everything under the sun without getting anywhere. One can rant about taxes, licensing costs, landing fees, you name it. None of this makes any real difference when the "sales" aren't there.
Things could be done, but not without many/most of the dinosaurs disappearing first. This will take time, because many school operators are happy to work for next to nothing. It's a sort of a hobby, and all the time they make enough to pay their rent they will do the same old thing.
It needs a bold approach from an outsider, and it could be done only at certain locations. But I am quite sure that a properly run school, with a modern fleet, correct advertising, and proper facilities for post-PPL pilots, and a few other easy things, would succeed.
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IO540 I agree with your sentiments, but it is very difficult to raise the capital required for a new fleet. Banks and most investors run a mile when aviation is mentioned. Many GA companies are backed up by deep pockets and as such turn a very minimal profit (if any!).
Whirly, with all respect, you don't know what you are talking about. Try teaching people for a year earning a pittance, through all conditions and in horrible a/c. Then see how jaded you become.
I consider myself fairly dedicated, but there is no way I would go back to full time teaching again. It simply is not worth it.
Heli instruction is a very different job, the pay is vastly better and you generally do fewer flights per day, so are able to try and do a 'proper' job rather than rushing around like a headless chicken.
Whirly, with all respect, you don't know what you are talking about. Try teaching people for a year earning a pittance, through all conditions and in horrible a/c. Then see how jaded you become.
I consider myself fairly dedicated, but there is no way I would go back to full time teaching again. It simply is not worth it.
Heli instruction is a very different job, the pay is vastly better and you generally do fewer flights per day, so are able to try and do a 'proper' job rather than rushing around like a headless chicken.
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Well Luke, its all very well you complaining about people not turning up or not being available for interview. You called me and left a message to contact you. I called back several times to be told it was your day off. As luck would have it a student was doing his QXC dual to Cambridge the next day so I took the opportunity to try to save you time and speak to you. However, you 'had only come in to do some paperwork and had not decided who to call in for interview'.
What did you call me for ?- to tell me you were going to call me?
Would 10 minutes of your valuable time been too much as I was there?
Then you called me again a few days later and expected me to drop everything and come for an interview the next day. Perhaps I should have let my clients down at the last minute!!!
I am a very experienced ME/SE unrestricted professional flying instructor with a very professional approach - incidentally I had all my paperwork with me to save you time and I was very interested in the job (and I was wearing a tie).
How dare you make generalisations like that.
Put your own house in order first.
What did you call me for ?- to tell me you were going to call me?
Would 10 minutes of your valuable time been too much as I was there?
Then you called me again a few days later and expected me to drop everything and come for an interview the next day. Perhaps I should have let my clients down at the last minute!!!
I am a very experienced ME/SE unrestricted professional flying instructor with a very professional approach - incidentally I had all my paperwork with me to save you time and I was very interested in the job (and I was wearing a tie).
How dare you make generalisations like that.
Put your own house in order first.
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pilotbear
Calm down, We wouldn't want to raise your blood pressure prior to our little sortie tomorrow would we now.
On the other side , 'to whom it may concern', I am a current licence holder undergoing some further training with pilotbear and am very satisfied with his level of competence and his professionalism. His positve attitude together with his professional skill and pleasent methods of presentation make him one of the best instructors that I have had so far. ( I have had a few during my initial training both in the UK and abroad)
C-I-M
PS. pilotbear ....I have done my homework as prescribed. See you tomorrow.
PPS. Yes , he does wear a tie.
Calm down, We wouldn't want to raise your blood pressure prior to our little sortie tomorrow would we now.
On the other side , 'to whom it may concern', I am a current licence holder undergoing some further training with pilotbear and am very satisfied with his level of competence and his professionalism. His positve attitude together with his professional skill and pleasent methods of presentation make him one of the best instructors that I have had so far. ( I have had a few during my initial training both in the UK and abroad)
C-I-M
PS. pilotbear ....I have done my homework as prescribed. See you tomorrow.
PPS. Yes , he does wear a tie.
Jet Blast Rat
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I'm with Snigs. I love teaching, even part time and mostly trial lessons! I have been told by someone who has known me for years, even through my time in the Navy, that she has never seen me so happy and contented.
The JAA decided that instructors would not be dedicated when they would not allow PPL holders to earn money instructing. A CPL became more expensive and difficult at the same time. It is now so expensive to join a career that offers a bare living, if that, that you see very few people starting out to be career instructors. We have ended up with a mix of malcontents stuck (perhaps without the attitude of mind to be commercial pilots) as instructors, people passing through waiting for a "real" job (I call it that, but only because I cannot persuade my girlfriend that instructing is work!), a few people like me who always wanted to be instructors as a hobby alongside a well-paid job and a few people who have been flying for years and who want this as a pleasant career.
There is a lack of quality instructors - we have been called at work by a school wanting two full-timers, unable to fill the vacancies with acceptable candidates. One of our former students, who knows our FI(R) course, called to see if we could put anyone in touch.
The JAA decided that instructors would not be dedicated when they would not allow PPL holders to earn money instructing. A CPL became more expensive and difficult at the same time. It is now so expensive to join a career that offers a bare living, if that, that you see very few people starting out to be career instructors. We have ended up with a mix of malcontents stuck (perhaps without the attitude of mind to be commercial pilots) as instructors, people passing through waiting for a "real" job (I call it that, but only because I cannot persuade my girlfriend that instructing is work!), a few people like me who always wanted to be instructors as a hobby alongside a well-paid job and a few people who have been flying for years and who want this as a pleasant career.
There is a lack of quality instructors - we have been called at work by a school wanting two full-timers, unable to fill the vacancies with acceptable candidates. One of our former students, who knows our FI(R) course, called to see if we could put anyone in touch.
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The Cost of Increasing Instruictor Pay
I'm an instructor, and I've worked at three different schools. When I'm instructing the only thought I have of money is towards making the best use of the student's training money. I know that attitude comes through to my students because before I changed schools I got comments like "I hate everything else about this school, but I came here because I wanted to train with you."
I don't know how you are paid, but this is the model in Canada. In round numbers, the student pays $100 per hour for the airplane and $40 per hour for the instructor. Of that, the instructor gets $20, before taxes. Instructors are paid based only on billable hours, the sum of briefing time and aircraft time. You don't fly, you don't eat.
The employers could pay us more without vastly increasing the student's training costs. Lets say that an employer decides to pay twice as much as any school in the area. Assuming comparable aircraft and facilities, he now has the choice of all the best flight instructors. How much does doubling instructor pay increase the student's bill?
The student at the old school takes an hour of instruction with 0.2 hours briefing and pays $148 for the lesson. The school takes $28 profit on the instruction and the instructor takes $28 home.
The student with the well-paid instructor pays $176 for the same lesson. The school makes the same $28 profit on the instructor, the instructor makes $56.
The second student paid 19% more for his lesson. Some students would pay that premium just to know that their school is putting its money where its mouth is to acquire the very best flight instructors. And the student may make up a good portion of that premium in requireing fewer hours to complete the licence.
This assumes that there are good instructors out there, that they will want to work for the best paying school, and that the employer can identify the best instructors in order to hire them.
I don't know how you are paid, but this is the model in Canada. In round numbers, the student pays $100 per hour for the airplane and $40 per hour for the instructor. Of that, the instructor gets $20, before taxes. Instructors are paid based only on billable hours, the sum of briefing time and aircraft time. You don't fly, you don't eat.
The employers could pay us more without vastly increasing the student's training costs. Lets say that an employer decides to pay twice as much as any school in the area. Assuming comparable aircraft and facilities, he now has the choice of all the best flight instructors. How much does doubling instructor pay increase the student's bill?
The student at the old school takes an hour of instruction with 0.2 hours briefing and pays $148 for the lesson. The school takes $28 profit on the instruction and the instructor takes $28 home.
The student with the well-paid instructor pays $176 for the same lesson. The school makes the same $28 profit on the instructor, the instructor makes $56.
The second student paid 19% more for his lesson. Some students would pay that premium just to know that their school is putting its money where its mouth is to acquire the very best flight instructors. And the student may make up a good portion of that premium in requireing fewer hours to complete the licence.
This assumes that there are good instructors out there, that they will want to work for the best paying school, and that the employer can identify the best instructors in order to hire them.
The Original Whirly
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SAS,
My point exactly. If you don't like a job, you leave. If you stay, you do it wholeheartedly. End of story.
I consider myself fairly dedicated, but there is no way I would go back to full time teaching again. It simply is not worth it.
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I cant say I agre with your statement Whirly.
You could absolutely love a job but if the equipment you are been given to do your job is a crock of sh1t then no matter how much you try and convince yourself you arent doing yourself - or more improtantly your students - any favours! Think how they feel when they climb in an aircraft with you with inop stickers all over it....
As for the money side, if teaching is your main game and source of income then sometimes you cant stay in it no matter how much you want to. Two cases I know of personally
1) Friend who closed his shop fitting company to take his dream job of being a diving instructor - after just over a year was back to shop fitting again. It worked along same lines of flying, when he wasnt working he wasnt paid! He now instructs weekends only as full time just didnt pay.
2) Another friend been teaching at his local airfield. Is looking to take IT contracts again to give him some money to enable him to go teaching again later in the year.
Its a wider picture at the end of the day.
You could absolutely love a job but if the equipment you are been given to do your job is a crock of sh1t then no matter how much you try and convince yourself you arent doing yourself - or more improtantly your students - any favours! Think how they feel when they climb in an aircraft with you with inop stickers all over it....
As for the money side, if teaching is your main game and source of income then sometimes you cant stay in it no matter how much you want to. Two cases I know of personally
1) Friend who closed his shop fitting company to take his dream job of being a diving instructor - after just over a year was back to shop fitting again. It worked along same lines of flying, when he wasnt working he wasnt paid! He now instructs weekends only as full time just didnt pay.
2) Another friend been teaching at his local airfield. Is looking to take IT contracts again to give him some money to enable him to go teaching again later in the year.
Its a wider picture at the end of the day.
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Whirly, it's not that I wasn't prepared to give the job its all, I was and still do, but it simply isn't financially worth it and I got fed up of being forced to do a shoody job because of the scheduling system that only allowed 1 1/2 hrs contact with a student when you need to do 1 hr of flying. it isn't possible to brief, debrief, check out the a/c properly in under 30 mins.
I forund that to be the most demoralising thing of all, the fact that I couldn't do the job as well as I wished because of unrealistic time constraints. I felt that the students were getting fleeced and I still do. This is why now I will only teach a max of 4 students in a day, so that I have a good amount of time with them and can go into the depth I feel is necessary.
I lose out because of this, as I only get paid for airborne time NOT contact time, but it allows me to feel that I have done the job properly.
So your sweeping statement,
Is not realistic. I love the job, but I hate the conditions forced upon us and have taken moves to ensure that "my" students get value for money. Does that make me less dedicated because I won't teach full time any more?
As I said Whirly, You are talking about a subject you don't know much about, you are an instructor, but NOT in fixed wing and that is a very different world to Helis. How do I know that? I hold a CPL(H) as well as an ATPL(A)
I forund that to be the most demoralising thing of all, the fact that I couldn't do the job as well as I wished because of unrealistic time constraints. I felt that the students were getting fleeced and I still do. This is why now I will only teach a max of 4 students in a day, so that I have a good amount of time with them and can go into the depth I feel is necessary.
I lose out because of this, as I only get paid for airborne time NOT contact time, but it allows me to feel that I have done the job properly.
So your sweeping statement,
If you don't like a job, you leave. If you stay, you do it wholeheartedly.
As I said Whirly, You are talking about a subject you don't know much about, you are an instructor, but NOT in fixed wing and that is a very different world to Helis. How do I know that? I hold a CPL(H) as well as an ATPL(A)
The Original Whirly
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Julian and SAS,
You are misunderstanding me, and taking what I said out of context. Shoddy equipment and time constraints are NOT what we were discussing (and incidentally, those exist in the helicopter instruting world too). People had been saying that they would not give their all to the job because they weren't paid enough. I still say that if that is the problem, you either leave the job, or do it wholeheartedly anyway. That applies to any job. I don't need to have been an instructor for years and years to say that, and incidentally, I have been hanging around flying schools for quite a long time, with my eyes open to what goes on.
You are misunderstanding me, and taking what I said out of context. Shoddy equipment and time constraints are NOT what we were discussing (and incidentally, those exist in the helicopter instruting world too). People had been saying that they would not give their all to the job because they weren't paid enough. I still say that if that is the problem, you either leave the job, or do it wholeheartedly anyway. That applies to any job. I don't need to have been an instructor for years and years to say that, and incidentally, I have been hanging around flying schools for quite a long time, with my eyes open to what goes on.
I state again that after a while it is hard to give everything to your job because you are not paid enough.
Maybe for a minority of people its possible. But to most, the grinding poverty of being a full time PPL FI inevitably leads to jaded dissenthusiasm (if that is a word!) setting in.
Work/Life balance and all that. For £100,000 a year I'll put in 14hr days 6 days a week under enormous pressure. You won't get that from me for £10,000. That is the principle I am saying exists in flight instruction.
There is no solution.
Cheers
WWW
Maybe for a minority of people its possible. But to most, the grinding poverty of being a full time PPL FI inevitably leads to jaded dissenthusiasm (if that is a word!) setting in.
Work/Life balance and all that. For £100,000 a year I'll put in 14hr days 6 days a week under enormous pressure. You won't get that from me for £10,000. That is the principle I am saying exists in flight instruction.
There is no solution.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Nov 2000
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There is no solution.
(1) Hire a personal private instructor and pay them £40k pa.
(2) Get taught by someone for whom instructing is a fun hobby, ie is not their day job on which they're trying to bring up a family and support a non-working partner.