Flight Test Engineer
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Flight Test Engineer
In the UK, what tends to be the normal career path to become a rotorwing FTE for an employer such as AgustaWestland or Boscombe Down?
Are they usually from a military background or have any come from the civil sector?
Are they usually from a military background or have any come from the civil sector?
Good aero-eng degree --> organisation, building up knowledge and employer's trust --> persuade flight test to take you on --> make bloody awful tea so they may as well let you try doing some FTEing.
If you want to go rotary, in the UK, Southampton, Liverpool and Glasgow are the good places to have your degree from, as they all cover significant helicopter content.
Most FTEs in P&HQ and mechanical systems tend to be civilians, although a lot in avionic systems and weapons come from a military background. There's no absolute rule however.
Even very occasionally FTEs move between fixed and rotary, although not all that often.
G
If you want to go rotary, in the UK, Southampton, Liverpool and Glasgow are the good places to have your degree from, as they all cover significant helicopter content.
Most FTEs in P&HQ and mechanical systems tend to be civilians, although a lot in avionic systems and weapons come from a military background. There's no absolute rule however.
Even very occasionally FTEs move between fixed and rotary, although not all that often.
G
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Semantics maybe, so apologies in advance. But to be a flight test engineer I thought one had to attend one of the TP schools in that capacity. I was always very careful to describe myself if asked as an FTO (flight test observer). There was an ocean of capability between me and our FTE; the ETPS FTE course made a very impressive product indeed.
I'd suggest that a job with QinetiQ in a flight test capacity should place you well to get on the FTE course.
I'd suggest that a job with QinetiQ in a flight test capacity should place you well to get on the FTE course.
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My original question was leaning towards the type of FTE you refer to but no apology required I-M....to clarify the difference, what did your duties as an FTO entail?
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Long time ago but basically involved preparation of flight trials instructions (FTI) for my own experiments as well as those of colleagues. Liason with TP. Approval from 'boss' (always a military TP - always involved stuff like 'how fast? 160? I'll give you 120!). Fly as observer to direct trial. Operate data acquisition kit in flight. Work with TP in flight. Data reduction (kneepad and tape - MODAS in my day). Data processing post flight. Re-write FTI and repeat as required.
Sounds easy as I type it now but my first time with a certain TP in our Lynx was like my Instrument Rating training - miles behind!
A marvellous time in my life though, working with some of the most professional, considerate and genuinely nice people I've ever met. The only time I've every really worked in or as a team.
The FTE though was the aircraft manager. He did all of the above plus liase with maintenance people. Calibrate the experimental fit. Design and oversee kit fits. Manage airworthiness and flight safety. The list goes on.
I once had to hang out of the side of a Lynx at 10000' with a cricket ball on some string, trying to con the pilot into a still-air hover. So the job could go from quite esoteric considerations, to some really practical flying.
In the UK I still think you really need to get into QinetiQ at Boscombe. However, I never knew any FTE's or FTO's who were military - all civvys.
I had a ball and learned my airmanship as an FTO. I hope that you can find a path to doing the job. Good luck
Sounds easy as I type it now but my first time with a certain TP in our Lynx was like my Instrument Rating training - miles behind!
A marvellous time in my life though, working with some of the most professional, considerate and genuinely nice people I've ever met. The only time I've every really worked in or as a team.
The FTE though was the aircraft manager. He did all of the above plus liase with maintenance people. Calibrate the experimental fit. Design and oversee kit fits. Manage airworthiness and flight safety. The list goes on.
I once had to hang out of the side of a Lynx at 10000' with a cricket ball on some string, trying to con the pilot into a still-air hover. So the job could go from quite esoteric considerations, to some really practical flying.
In the UK I still think you really need to get into QinetiQ at Boscombe. However, I never knew any FTE's or FTO's who were military - all civvys.
I had a ball and learned my airmanship as an FTO. I hope that you can find a path to doing the job. Good luck
I-M,
Whilst I hadn't (and subsequently didn't) graduate(d) from TPS, what you describe - including liaison, reporting, managing is certainly what I was doing under the job title "Trials Officer" at BDN, and have met many people who are not TPS graduates doing that around the world. We called ourselves FTEs. My then boss once described the point of TPS as making an FTE very experienced, very quickly - which it certainly did.
I'm pretty certain that a majority of SFTE members are also not TPS graduates. Their requirements for Member don't even mention TPS as an optional route to membership.
G
Whilst I hadn't (and subsequently didn't) graduate(d) from TPS, what you describe - including liaison, reporting, managing is certainly what I was doing under the job title "Trials Officer" at BDN, and have met many people who are not TPS graduates doing that around the world. We called ourselves FTEs. My then boss once described the point of TPS as making an FTE very experienced, very quickly - which it certainly did.
I'm pretty certain that a majority of SFTE members are also not TPS graduates. Their requirements for Member don't even mention TPS as an optional route to membership.
G
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Thank you to both Genghis and I-M for your replies.....the sort of thing I was after.
Anymore input from anyone else ref FTEs, FTOs etc and what their jobs involve would be very much appreciated.
Anymore input from anyone else ref FTEs, FTOs etc and what their jobs involve would be very much appreciated.
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In my view there is no reason why someone can not accrue sufficient experience to act as an FTE without graduating from a recognised course, but this route may limit opportunities in some companies and countries (e.g. France, where FTE'ing is more heavily regulated that in the UK). Also, it would take a long time to see everything you would see on a graduate course, so your ability to work on all trials may be compromised.
What attending a graduate FTE course does (or should do), is provides a level of experience which will allow the FTE to work effectively in all areas of testing. It doesn't mean that you know the answers, but it will mean you know where to start and how to approach the problem safely - especially when teamed with a a TP and good design team.
Where I work, an FTO can be pretty much anyone involved in the trial who has completed the required medical and safety training. They may be an avionics engineer who needs to see how his equipment is functioning, or may be an instrumentation engineer who needs to ensure the recording kit is kept serviceable. The FTE is the person who is in charge of bringing it all together and co-ordinates the testing activities on the aircraft, either from the aircraft or via telemetry comms (the Captain is in charge of the aircraft, but the FTE is the person who sequences the test activities based upon the results, priorities, fuel load, c.g., etc etc. - with the information provided by the onboard experts of course).
Under AvP67 - Mil flight testing regs. An Graduate FTE is classified along with an FTO and as such they are all regulated under the same rules. Under EASA the rules are currently being developed, but there are attempts to make things a little more regulated, which may require further training to demonstrate non-graduate FTE qualification, this of course could be very costly.
I believe that QQ ETPS course now trains both Civ and Mil personnel as FTEs. I do not know of any other companies who pay to put their staff through a graduate course, most would recruit from QQ or train on the job with the help of short courses.
nodrama - you don't mention what your aspirations are.
FTEP
What attending a graduate FTE course does (or should do), is provides a level of experience which will allow the FTE to work effectively in all areas of testing. It doesn't mean that you know the answers, but it will mean you know where to start and how to approach the problem safely - especially when teamed with a a TP and good design team.
Where I work, an FTO can be pretty much anyone involved in the trial who has completed the required medical and safety training. They may be an avionics engineer who needs to see how his equipment is functioning, or may be an instrumentation engineer who needs to ensure the recording kit is kept serviceable. The FTE is the person who is in charge of bringing it all together and co-ordinates the testing activities on the aircraft, either from the aircraft or via telemetry comms (the Captain is in charge of the aircraft, but the FTE is the person who sequences the test activities based upon the results, priorities, fuel load, c.g., etc etc. - with the information provided by the onboard experts of course).
Under AvP67 - Mil flight testing regs. An Graduate FTE is classified along with an FTO and as such they are all regulated under the same rules. Under EASA the rules are currently being developed, but there are attempts to make things a little more regulated, which may require further training to demonstrate non-graduate FTE qualification, this of course could be very costly.
I believe that QQ ETPS course now trains both Civ and Mil personnel as FTEs. I do not know of any other companies who pay to put their staff through a graduate course, most would recruit from QQ or train on the job with the help of short courses.
nodrama - you don't mention what your aspirations are.
FTEP
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I've been maintaining helicopters for over 20 yrs, military to begin with and civil for the last 10 (a few fix-wing types aswell). I'm an EASA licensed aircraft maintenance engineer.
Got a technical aerospace HNC and I'm just over a year into a part-time BSc (Hons) in aircraft maint engineering.
Love my job, especially the trouble-shooting/ fault-finding part of it, and the pay is alright, but have become more and more interested in the how & why & how could it be better of helicopter design.
I spent a short time at Boscombe doing rotorwing maintenance, a few years back now, and got a brief insight into the R & D there. I have met a few serving and x- ETPS TPs throughout my career who have impressed me with their knowledge and approach to the post maintenance flight tests we have been involved with together.
I may be a little too late in my career to take a road into flight test engineering, but I'm interested in it and looking to find out more about it.
Got a technical aerospace HNC and I'm just over a year into a part-time BSc (Hons) in aircraft maint engineering.
Love my job, especially the trouble-shooting/ fault-finding part of it, and the pay is alright, but have become more and more interested in the how & why & how could it be better of helicopter design.
I spent a short time at Boscombe doing rotorwing maintenance, a few years back now, and got a brief insight into the R & D there. I have met a few serving and x- ETPS TPs throughout my career who have impressed me with their knowledge and approach to the post maintenance flight tests we have been involved with together.
I may be a little too late in my career to take a road into flight test engineering, but I'm interested in it and looking to find out more about it.
I've been maintaining helicopters for over 20 yrs, military to begin with and civil for the last 10 (a few fix-wing types aswell). I'm an EASA licensed aircraft maintenance engineer.
Got a technical aerospace HNC and I'm just over a year into a part-time BSc (Hons) in aircraft maint engineering.
Love my job, especially the trouble-shooting/ fault-finding part of it, and the pay is alright, but have become more and more interested in the how & why & how could it be better of helicopter design.
I spent a short time at Boscombe doing rotorwing maintenance, a few years back now, and got a brief insight into the R & D there. I have met a few serving and x- ETPS TPs throughout my career who have impressed me with their knowledge and approach to the post maintenance flight tests we have been involved with together.
I may be a little too late in my career to take a road into flight test engineering, but I'm interested in it and looking to find out more about it.
Got a technical aerospace HNC and I'm just over a year into a part-time BSc (Hons) in aircraft maint engineering.
Love my job, especially the trouble-shooting/ fault-finding part of it, and the pay is alright, but have become more and more interested in the how & why & how could it be better of helicopter design.
I spent a short time at Boscombe doing rotorwing maintenance, a few years back now, and got a brief insight into the R & D there. I have met a few serving and x- ETPS TPs throughout my career who have impressed me with their knowledge and approach to the post maintenance flight tests we have been involved with together.
I may be a little too late in my career to take a road into flight test engineering, but I'm interested in it and looking to find out more about it.
Offering a personal opinion only - I'm not hiring!, maintenance qualifications and experience are valuable in that they show a strong understanding of the aircraft environment, and of aircraft systems. What you probably need to move into FTEing is something more genuinely academic. The BEng is a good basis, but being maintenance based lacks the specific analytical and reporting skills that are really fundamental to FT.
I'd suggest finishing off the BEng as fast as possible, then moving onto a good MSc - that, plus your obviously considerable experience, may well put you in the frame for FT jobs. Cranfield is probably the best first port of call for a high quality aerospace MSc, and their Aerospace Dynamics MSc in particular is very highly regarded in the flight test world.
G
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Ideal path to ideal job?
Good evening everyone. Thank you for the valuable information provided. No need to say that performing flight test duties has been an personal objective for some time... but I also remember F. Alonso from Airbus explaining that chance was a prime parameter in becoming a flight test engineer (being in the right place at the right time).
My aerospace experience started a few years ago in maintenance engineering as well, during an internship at Brymon Airways in Plymouth. I finished university in France graduating in Automation and passed the MSc in aerospace dynamics at Cranfield (with Pr Cook as a teacher).
I have specialised in handling qualities and control laws design, helping on the development on the A380, the NH90 and today the M346. I also have a frozen ATPL from Oxford Aviation.
Well, I still have not found my way! Of course the french and italians require to be graduated from an approved organisation, and the current climate does not help in sponsoring ground engineers.
It is not that I want people to be sad for me, but to explain that it does not always work as planned... On my side I will keep knocking at as many doors as I can, but what a hard way!
Pierre
My aerospace experience started a few years ago in maintenance engineering as well, during an internship at Brymon Airways in Plymouth. I finished university in France graduating in Automation and passed the MSc in aerospace dynamics at Cranfield (with Pr Cook as a teacher).
I have specialised in handling qualities and control laws design, helping on the development on the A380, the NH90 and today the M346. I also have a frozen ATPL from Oxford Aviation.
Well, I still have not found my way! Of course the french and italians require to be graduated from an approved organisation, and the current climate does not help in sponsoring ground engineers.
It is not that I want people to be sad for me, but to explain that it does not always work as planned... On my side I will keep knocking at as many doors as I can, but what a hard way!
Pierre
