First flight RV8
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First flight RV8
A friend of mine is just completing a RV8 and wanted me to do the initial flight for him. At first I was under the assumtion that it would be it would be myself solo and agreed to it.
Now however he is talking about "being along for the ride" and I feel this is inviting disaster should anything actually happen. It is my understanding as well that no passengers can be caried until the first 40 hours are flown off and obviously you cannot have two pilots in command at once.
I think I will tell him to do his own initial flight test, he did an excellant job building the plane, I feel he will have no problems flying it.
Now however he is talking about "being along for the ride" and I feel this is inviting disaster should anything actually happen. It is my understanding as well that no passengers can be caried until the first 40 hours are flown off and obviously you cannot have two pilots in command at once.
I think I will tell him to do his own initial flight test, he did an excellant job building the plane, I feel he will have no problems flying it.
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The actual "rules" will of course depend on that country's regs. However, AFAIK, most would say the 1st flight should be solo.
I think the FAA are fairly keen about most of the test flying being solo? In the UK, the test phase of an RV only needs to be "5hrs or more", and the LAA emphasise a suitable observer is "desirable" for much of the Test Phase. However, they do say Flight #1 is to be solo.
I've done 2 RV-8 1st flights for other owners, and think the limited expectations / ambitions for the 1st flight do not require an observer.
NoD
I think the FAA are fairly keen about most of the test flying being solo? In the UK, the test phase of an RV only needs to be "5hrs or more", and the LAA emphasise a suitable observer is "desirable" for much of the Test Phase. However, they do say Flight #1 is to be solo.
I've done 2 RV-8 1st flights for other owners, and think the limited expectations / ambitions for the 1st flight do not require an observer.
NoD
Flight testing such as the first flight of a new amateur-built aeroplanes, should be minimum essential crew only. There may be reasons to have the builder there - to act as an FTO, to provide direct feedback on design issues, and so on. However, most people in this line of work would agree that for the First Flight (note capitals), that flight should be solo. If you want to talk to him, radio has been routinely fitted to aeroplanes for some years!
There's a lot of history of builders succesfully doing their own first flights - starting with the Wright Brothers. However, I'd also personally ask two important questions if that is proposed: (1) has the builder being maintaining enough flying currency to do this sort of flight where a lot of things can go wrong (For example, I've flown 5 first flights of homebuilts, 2 of them I suffered engine failures and one an ASI failure), (2) do they have the right sort of specific experience to conduct flight testing - a lot of high hour PPLs, or ATPLs for that matter, do not maintain good recency in low speed handling and PFLs for example.
A couple of other passing thoughts:
- I've heard it suggested that the best person to fly a first flight is somebody who isn't too restrained from trashing the aeroplane if that's needed to survive. I'm not necessarily supporting this rather patronising viewpoint, but thoughts I'd mention it.
- There's a lot of experience in how to safely conduct first flights of light aircraft. Whoever flies needs to be familiar with those lessons learned - realistically, neither normal private/professional flying training covers this, nor TPS. The experience lies mostly in a small number of aircraft manufacturers, and the large sport flying associations such as EAA, LAA/PFA, BMAA... Two very good bits of reading matter also are the FAA's AC 90-89 and Vaughan Askew's "Flight testing homebuilt aircraft".
- In an ideal world, the pilot flying the first flight wants to be current (handling, emergencies, stall recoveries) in something pretty similar.
G
There's a lot of history of builders succesfully doing their own first flights - starting with the Wright Brothers. However, I'd also personally ask two important questions if that is proposed: (1) has the builder being maintaining enough flying currency to do this sort of flight where a lot of things can go wrong (For example, I've flown 5 first flights of homebuilts, 2 of them I suffered engine failures and one an ASI failure), (2) do they have the right sort of specific experience to conduct flight testing - a lot of high hour PPLs, or ATPLs for that matter, do not maintain good recency in low speed handling and PFLs for example.
A couple of other passing thoughts:
- I've heard it suggested that the best person to fly a first flight is somebody who isn't too restrained from trashing the aeroplane if that's needed to survive. I'm not necessarily supporting this rather patronising viewpoint, but thoughts I'd mention it.
- There's a lot of experience in how to safely conduct first flights of light aircraft. Whoever flies needs to be familiar with those lessons learned - realistically, neither normal private/professional flying training covers this, nor TPS. The experience lies mostly in a small number of aircraft manufacturers, and the large sport flying associations such as EAA, LAA/PFA, BMAA... Two very good bits of reading matter also are the FAA's AC 90-89 and Vaughan Askew's "Flight testing homebuilt aircraft".
- In an ideal world, the pilot flying the first flight wants to be current (handling, emergencies, stall recoveries) in something pretty similar.
G
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And you will most likely want to be fully conversant with the RV build..... and go over the thing with a very fine toothed comb.
They guy we had do ours is an RV guru, and he even misses the odd thing.
You can never be too careful. If the a/c is built right and rigged right it will fly pretty much sttraigh out of the box. Its fuel systems that you need to be 1000% sure of. poor joints etc....go over the plane looking for defects, if you do not find at least 3....go over it again. And if you still cant find 3, find someone who can!
J
J430 and RV10 builder.....and lived!
They guy we had do ours is an RV guru, and he even misses the odd thing.
You can never be too careful. If the a/c is built right and rigged right it will fly pretty much sttraigh out of the box. Its fuel systems that you need to be 1000% sure of. poor joints etc....go over the plane looking for defects, if you do not find at least 3....go over it again. And if you still cant find 3, find someone who can!
J
J430 and RV10 builder.....and lived!
G'day Polyfibre
As previously posted, 1st flights and the subsequent test flying to 25hrs, (40 if 1st of type in Aust), is a job for a reasonably experienced and current 'on type' pilot. The test pilot should have plenty of RV hours.
I've seen some 10-15 RV's do their test flights here, and all were done by pilots with >1000 hrs TT on RV's. Our most renowned test pilot, (16 RV's 1st flighted), is an 80 yo ex aggie with who knows how many hours. With this level of experience, the test pilot has time to look and check things thoroughly.
The RV-8 is always going to be a handful with 180 or 200 HP plus CSU - so you don't need passenger distractions, crosswinds, short runways, or a lack of possible forced landing areas adjacent the 'test' airport.
As for Australia - passengers are excluded from 1st flights, and also from the 'fly-off' - unless they are a qualified pilot and are actively assisting with recording numbers for the PIC. My experience is that even low hrs PPL's don't at all relish some of the fly-off stalling and stability testing - which is often quite interesting.
Just a point about the subsequent 'test' flying. Do not take this lightly, because things are just as, or even more, likely to go awry after the aircraft has had some vibration to jiggle things around. Make sure that it's decowled and very carefully checked over....after each flight until you get past 5-6 hrs.
And, if you have installed a new engine, it has to be run-in over these 1st few hours. That means high power settings, so this also contributes to the loosening off with screws, nuts and other items.
happy days,
poteroo..... (ex RV6 owner and now RV-9A owner)
As previously posted, 1st flights and the subsequent test flying to 25hrs, (40 if 1st of type in Aust), is a job for a reasonably experienced and current 'on type' pilot. The test pilot should have plenty of RV hours.
I've seen some 10-15 RV's do their test flights here, and all were done by pilots with >1000 hrs TT on RV's. Our most renowned test pilot, (16 RV's 1st flighted), is an 80 yo ex aggie with who knows how many hours. With this level of experience, the test pilot has time to look and check things thoroughly.
The RV-8 is always going to be a handful with 180 or 200 HP plus CSU - so you don't need passenger distractions, crosswinds, short runways, or a lack of possible forced landing areas adjacent the 'test' airport.
As for Australia - passengers are excluded from 1st flights, and also from the 'fly-off' - unless they are a qualified pilot and are actively assisting with recording numbers for the PIC. My experience is that even low hrs PPL's don't at all relish some of the fly-off stalling and stability testing - which is often quite interesting.
Just a point about the subsequent 'test' flying. Do not take this lightly, because things are just as, or even more, likely to go awry after the aircraft has had some vibration to jiggle things around. Make sure that it's decowled and very carefully checked over....after each flight until you get past 5-6 hrs.
And, if you have installed a new engine, it has to be run-in over these 1st few hours. That means high power settings, so this also contributes to the loosening off with screws, nuts and other items.
happy days,
poteroo..... (ex RV6 owner and now RV-9A owner)
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I have done the first flights on a few homebuilts and it is akin to giving birth! The hours of fussing and checking and re-checking after engine runs, taxi tests and then finaly the flight tests.
I remember the words a very good test pilot who is an expert on vintage and light aircraft once said to me,
"There are plenty of people who will fly it for you, but very few who will actually be able to test it for you"
My advise is find someone who will properly test it for you.
MM
"There are plenty of people who will fly it for you, but very few who will actually be able to test it for you"
My advise is find someone who will properly test it for you.
MM
