Embraer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Europe!
It is an Embraer 190 and is doing London City certification for a week or so. All sorts of stuff i believe, parking trails, noise abatement trails on SIDs and obviously the steep approach stuff.
It appears to be capable of slow Vapp speeds with a very high nose attitude.
Anyone out there flying the E190 or E195 know how it goes on three degrees? Good performance? Fast on the transition as well as the cruise? Bird impact speed (if it has one), ie can it go below FL100 at "high speed"? Easy to slow down!? Climb with good rates?
Maybe in a years time they will be a more common sight at LCY!
It appears to be capable of slow Vapp speeds with a very high nose attitude.
Anyone out there flying the E190 or E195 know how it goes on three degrees? Good performance? Fast on the transition as well as the cruise? Bird impact speed (if it has one), ie can it go below FL100 at "high speed"? Easy to slow down!? Climb with good rates?
Maybe in a years time they will be a more common sight at LCY!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
From: Nirvana South
FBP,
The approach into London City is at 5.5 degrees and requires Steep Approach capability - which means some TP has flown a 7.5 degree approach with the aircraft before getting anywhere near EGLC. According to one of our pilots, about the most difficult part was the taxi & parking checks - there's just no space on the field!
The approach into London City is at 5.5 degrees and requires Steep Approach capability - which means some TP has flown a 7.5 degree approach with the aircraft before getting anywhere near EGLC. According to one of our pilots, about the most difficult part was the taxi & parking checks - there's just no space on the field!
Guest
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What I'd like to know is this:
The E-Jet had to do the whole plot of noise, steep app, both ends,40 landings and 40 take offs plus much,much more.
The A319 did one touch and go and a full stop, all on 28. (AFAIK)
While I'm prepared to accept that the Airbus may have done a bit more than I state above, it certainly did not do the week long comprehensive series of flights that the 190 did.
Now both (I think) are certificated.
How so?
The E-Jet had to do the whole plot of noise, steep app, both ends,40 landings and 40 take offs plus much,much more.
The A319 did one touch and go and a full stop, all on 28. (AFAIK)
While I'm prepared to accept that the Airbus may have done a bit more than I state above, it certainly did not do the week long comprehensive series of flights that the 190 did.
Now both (I think) are certificated.
How so?
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 6
From: La Belle Province
Plus you don't need to do the aircraft work for a 5.5 deg GS at London - just the operational stuff for London.
You can do the "raw" cert for a 5.5 deg GS wherever you like - as long as there's a suitable GS. Since you also need a 7.5 deg GS somewhere (to demo the 7.5 deg cert capability noted above) it may be a LOT easier to find somewhere quiet that will reset their beam to an angle of your choice. That way you dont get tied up with normal London City traffic etc.
Chances are Airbus did at least as much as Embraer - but at some other location.
You can do the "raw" cert for a 5.5 deg GS wherever you like - as long as there's a suitable GS. Since you also need a 7.5 deg GS somewhere (to demo the 7.5 deg cert capability noted above) it may be a LOT easier to find somewhere quiet that will reset their beam to an angle of your choice. That way you dont get tied up with normal London City traffic etc.
Chances are Airbus did at least as much as Embraer - but at some other location.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 734
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From: Nirvana South
Beleive there's an ex-SAC base in Arkansas where they'll happily reset the ILS to whatever angle you want - for a $$$$ fee. You don't need to any specific testing for up to 4.5 degrees (your basic ILS cert is meant to cover that) but most manufacturers will make sure that the FD control laws work correctly at the 4 degrees needed at, say, Marseilles, and that you can safely do a go around without too great a height loss. Based in the US, we use Van Nuys with its 3.9 as a stand-in.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mad Flt Scientist.
I know Embraer did some prep before they came over and I expect this included the 7.5 degree stuff. Airbus must have done the same.
I also know companies dont waste money if they can avoid it.
Therefore why did Embraer not do what Airbus did, and minimise the expensive week they spent at LCY?
I know Embraer did some prep before they came over and I expect this included the 7.5 degree stuff. Airbus must have done the same.
I also know companies dont waste money if they can avoid it.
Therefore why did Embraer not do what Airbus did, and minimise the expensive week they spent at LCY?
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 6
From: La Belle Province
Aha. Turns out that Airbus did a bit more than one Tough-and-Go.
From LCY "Runway News"
So the 318 did two sets of tests. That the 319 would only do a very limited set of tests is therefore not surprising.
From LCY "Runway News"
Following the successful evaluation flights in May
2006, the Airbus A318 returned to London City Airport
in October to perform a series of compatibility tests.
Approval for London City Airport will make the Airbus
A318 the latest generation airline in the 100-seat class
to be able to operate out of the Airport. With the widest
and most comfortable cabin, the A318 will bring higher
comfort to business routes operating out of the Airport.
During this visit the A318 showed that it could meet the
steep approach and low noise level requirements at
London City Airport, confirming itself as a good neighbour
at inner city airports.
2006, the Airbus A318 returned to London City Airport
in October to perform a series of compatibility tests.
Approval for London City Airport will make the Airbus
A318 the latest generation airline in the 100-seat class
to be able to operate out of the Airport. With the widest
and most comfortable cabin, the A318 will bring higher
comfort to business routes operating out of the Airport.
During this visit the A318 showed that it could meet the
steep approach and low noise level requirements at
London City Airport, confirming itself as a good neighbour
at inner city airports.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, USA
E-Jet
As far as I recall Company E did their work-ups at Blythe, CA.
7.5 degrees - easy from the back of the cab, calling GS all the way down to the co-pilots call of "idle" at screen height, ahh what fun that was. Boy the runway gets very big, very quickly!
7.5 degrees - easy from the back of the cab, calling GS all the way down to the co-pilots call of "idle" at screen height, ahh what fun that was. Boy the runway gets very big, very quickly!
